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Original poster

How do you explain your faith?

90 replies

TooBusyByHalf · 03/06/2015 08:29

If you believe in God how do you explain to non-believing friends and family why you believe? And from there, how you got to following your particular religion?

I am finding it very hard with new and fragile faith to articulate to my atheist DP why I'm even doing this. And I'm not getting very far with just saying it feels like something I need to do etc.

How would you explain your faith?

OP posts:

KingOfTheBongo · 09/06/2015 22:53

There have been several cases of persons who for some reason could not communicate with the outside world until they were adults. Once they did finally manage to communicate, they explained that although they didn't know the word for God or what this God was like, they just knew He was there for them and with them, always.

I like this. It shows that believing in God is intrinsic to humans ("written in our hearts"), and not the result of indoctrination as some of the more shrill atheists claim.

Also for the poster who believes that Christians don't use reason ... I protest. Christianity is far more coherent as a worldview than naturalism which is incapable of explaining even some very basic things.

TTWK · 10/06/2015 08:43

God can move mountains.

I think that's tectonic plates actually.

sunnyspot · 11/06/2015 21:06

QofF. Great post (5th June). My thoughts exactly.
Hope it's going OK TooBusy.

Original poster

TooBusyByHalf · 11/06/2015 22:02

God is not moving any mountains for me just now.

Just popping back to say thanks to you all for your support and advice. I'm leaving MN for a while.

OP posts:

capsium · 11/06/2015 23:08

Take care x.

Vivacia · 12/06/2015 17:08

As much as I understand the atheist worldview from the outside one of the foundation stones is that faith and fundamentalism are equated so that Christians are all right wing homophobes and all muslims are closet members of IS.

Then you misunderstand atheism completely.

It shows that believing in God is intrinsic to humans

It shows some people believe that believing in God is intrinsic...

thegreenheartofmanyroundabouts · 12/06/2015 20:02

TooBusyByHalf you have probably already taken time out but I hope that you are OK and that a break from MN will be positive for you.

Vivacia you have quoted me from upthread. My experience of atheists who conflate fundamentalism and faith comes from engaging with people with this world view on and offline. As someone who is very visible as a Christian get the best and worst of experiences of people sharing their faith or lack of it. The clerical collar is a clue to most people...Not all atheists are like this of course but a significant group are. John Lennox shares this view and he has engaged with Richard Dawkins and other celebrity atheists so it isn't just my experience. He explores this in his book ''Gunning for God; Why New Atheists are Missing Their Target.'

perfectlybroken · 12/06/2015 20:09

I really sympathise OP (sorry not actually read the rest of the thread but I will!). I felt constantly on the defensive when I first converted to my faith, and always obliged to prove how happy I was (actually, I wasn't that happy at that time, it was a big change and quite stressful, but I knew it was right).
Now when people ask I just tell them I was following my heart and that I felt it was the right thing to do. That faith gave me inner peace. That sums it up really, and 10 years down the line people are more easily satisfied! Best of luck OP, hope it gets easier for you.
Just seen it's your other half that has the problem, sorry to hear that, it must make it difficult. I can only think that if you just keep treating her well as she can ultimately see the benefits for you then she might accept it.

Pixa · 12/06/2015 20:13

I don't follow a particular religion, although I suppose I am closely aligned to being a first cause theorist.

I always say that in everyone's deepest, darkest time of need, their natural reaction is to pray. I think it gives people comfort and hope and I believe in giving people that hope.

Vivacia · 12/06/2015 20:14

Thank you for moderating your stance thegreen. I'm sure there's as much variation between atheists as between people who believe in a god or gods.

sunnyspot · 12/06/2015 21:19

I am a Christian and I completely agree with the points you are making Vivacia.

TTWK · 12/06/2015 22:50

Kingofthebongo-Also for the poster who believes that Christians don't use reason ... I protest. Christianity is far more coherent as a worldview than naturalism which is incapable of explaining even some very basic things.

Christianity explains nothing, it just gives made up answers to stuff we don't yet understand.

Christians don't use reason, because if you could reason with religious people, then there wouldn't be any religious people.

capsium · 13/06/2015 09:56

Christians don't use reason, because if you could reason with religious people, then there wouldn't be any religious people.

I am a Christian and I use reason. I'm surprised this really needs to be said. Just because I freely admit reasoning has it's limitations (because we never have all all the facts available) does not mean I don't use reasoning.

2 Timothy 1:7 says "For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind." So our minds our acknowledged in the Bible also and we are encouraged to use them.

Just because I am not afraid of admitting we don't have all the facts, admitting when we don't a certain amount is done 'in faith' or in science that assumptions are made, does not mean I don't use reasoning. I am just honest about my faith and my assumptions.

headinhands · 13/06/2015 10:06

it shows that believing in God is intrinsic to humans

There is evidence of peoples that's had no belief systems:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E1%BC%8C%C...

"Will Durant explains that certain pygmy tribes found in Africa were observed to have no identifiable cults or rites. There were no totems, no deities, and no spirits. Their dead were buried without special ceremonies or accompanying items and received no further attention.

Clearly you cannot say belief in God is intrinsic without either ignoring people who had no beliefs then or holding some fairly unsavoury/unfounded beliefs about those people.

headinhands · 13/06/2015 10:11

we never have all the facts available

In which case then most logical position is to refrain from making a decision. That's the difference between faith and a lack of faith. Because I have no reason to believe your religion or any other is true I refrain from believing it until I have good reason to. Think about why you aren't a Muslim (assuming you're a Christian) I reckon our reasons are similar.

capsium · 13/06/2015 10:16

In which case then most logical position is to refrain from making a decision.

It would be but this is impossible. Refraining from decision making or taking action is as much an action or a decision in itself (as a positive decision / action) and not always the best one, although it sometimes is. Analysts paralysis is something I have experienced in the past which is not pleasant.

capsium · 13/06/2015 10:18

I'm not a Muslim because I believe Christ was and is more than a prophet.

capsium · 13/06/2015 10:19

^analysis. Typo.

headinhands · 13/06/2015 11:08

It would be but this is impossible. Refraining from decision making or taking action is as much an action or a decision in itself

But it is the most logical position to take due to being unable make a decision based on sufficient facts.

headinhands · 13/06/2015 11:10

Was Mohammad sent by God?

headinhands · 13/06/2015 11:12

which is not pleasant

It's not about what is pleasant it is about not liking the idea of thinking things that are not true.

TTWK · 13/06/2015 11:18

Just because I am not afraid of admitting we don't have all the facts, admitting when we don't a certain amount is done 'in faith' or in science that assumptions are made,

In science, when assumptions are made, they are made to test a possible model to see if it explains the thing you are investigating. Assumptions are not made in science and then treated as fact.

You talk about not being afraid to admit you don't have the facts, which is fine. The trouble is, you can't leave it there. You have to have an answer, so you use god to fill in the gaps in knowledge. "I don't know how this happened, so god did it."

In science, we don't know the answer, we admit it, and we do more science to try and find the answer. We're not afraid to leave unanswered questions unanswered. Better to admit you don't know than to make up supernatural nonsense to provide an answer.

capsium · 13/06/2015 11:34

head how do you prove something that not completely understood is not true?

TTWK
In science, we don't know the answer, we admit it, and we do more science to try and find the answer. We're not afraid to leave unanswered questions unanswered. Better to admit you don't know than to make up supernatural nonsense to provide an answer.

In scienctific practice the 'assumptions' tend to be stated and are not tested but not always even stated.

But this is not a case of science v. Religious faith since they are not mutually exclusive. I can believe what ever I like but still use scientific methods to learn more about the world.

headinhands · 13/06/2015 12:27

head how do you prove something that not completely understood is not true?

Sorry do you mean how do prove that things I don't understand are not true? Well firstly I don't assume that things I don't understand are not true. There are many things gas I don't know how they work but I see them work such as my cars engines nd I know that I can learn if I want to and that there is a co senses on how it works and it can be tested.

There are also things that I don't have reason to think is true because of lack of evidence and so on. Think of things that some people believe in whole heartedly that you don't think is true even though you don't have proof. It's about probability, understanding of the world and probability isn't it. If you are saying we need proof that things do not exist before we behave as such I can only assume you are sacrificing to the Greek gods as a matter of routine. If not why?

capsium · 13/06/2015 12:28

But it is the most logical position to take due to being unable make a decision based on sufficient facts.

The consequences to refraining from making a decision can be just as serious from making one. Inaction can be as serious as action and visa versa.

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