Questions about divorce and homosexuality

[starshaker]

Had a bit of a debate a couple of days ago. A very devout christian was saying how wrong it was to be gay and how god thinks its so evil blah de blah.

My point was that 1 of the 10 commandments is thou shalt no commit adultery. The other point was that the bible classes people who have remarried after divorce, adulterers. And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery"

No where in the 10 commandments does it say thou shalt not be gay.

So what are your thoughts on this?

[starshaker]

I should also mention the person i was having the debate with was remarried after divorce

[starshaker]

?

[Brandysnapper]

Please note I don't personally agree with this.
But it can be said that gay relationships are "outlawed" by the commandment about adultery too, as it demands that no one has a sexual relationship except with someone they are married to. So the Ten Commandments might not mention being gay but they outlaw any unmarried sex.
The OT definitely wasn't against divorce, though Jesus clearly was.

[thegreenheartofmanyroundabouts]

I am always suspicious when a group say that God thinks x is evil or hates x. When God hates the same people that they hate or think are evil then it is more than likely that they have made God in their own image and the second commandment is quite clear on that one.

Those who say that homosexuality is wrong and that the Bible is clear on this issue are taking some passages in the Bible which was written for a different culture and saying that these parts must be taken literally whereas there are reasons why lots of other passages should not be.

Others say that the Bible is silent on the issue of monogamous life long loving gay partnerships.

There is a good background article here here

[TrojanWhore]

The 10 commandments don't cover paedophilia either. And in some countries it's not an offence.

Doesn't make it right.

[TrojanWhore]

Oh h'll! Just realised how badly that could be misread.

I mean only that the 10 Commandments do not necessarily cover all forms of wrongdoing. Relying on the inclusion, of otherwise, of any particular act is not necessarily a be-all-and-end-all argument.

(Most emphatically not intended as a straight comparison).

[starshaker]

Trojan the bible doesnt say anything about pedophilia. We as civilised humans have decided its wrong (which it so totally is). Jesus mum was thought to only be 12-14. Girls married very young then.
Dont even get me started on the bibles view of rape.

[Vivacia]

So what are your thoughts on this?

That the bible condemns homosexuality but it doesn't stop many Christians being absolutely obsessed with anal sex.

[moifem]

It is certainly wrong to judge your fellow human beings! how can you love others if you judge them?
In regards to homosexuality and adultery in Christianity Jesus himself said almost nothing inviting people to throw the first stone if they had never sinned. Only Paul wrote against homosexuality.
It is a fabrication of the church through the centuries.
For me a big deterrent to go to church where I found the most judgemental people ever.

[Italiangreyhound]

Moifem so sorry that you experienced very judgemental people at church.

There is a such a variety of people and churches I am sure there are many different places of Christian worship where you can meet very kind and loving people.

On the subject of this thread can I suggest if anyone would like to listen rather than read this video is excellent. It is long. It argues a case about being affirming and accepting of gay relationships while also explaining the possible meaning of some of the passages in the Bible which have traditionally been used to say that gay relationships are wrong.

It is long but if you are interested it is good.

There are also some very good Facebook groups and there is an organisation called Accepting Evangelicals

As far as divorce goes I personally choose to interpret those verses that I have read that mention divorce to be made for the protection of the couple in marriage, especially the women in marriage.

Mark 10:2-5 says "2 Some Pharisees came and tested him by asking, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife?”

3 “What did Moses command you?” he replied.

4 They said, “Moses permitted a man to write a certificate of divorce and send her away.”

5 “It was because your hearts were hard that Moses wrote you this law,” Jesus replied. 6"

I think this means that divorce was allowed because people may not want to stay together (and it seems to be only the men were allowed to divorce not the other way around!) but Jesus is saying it is better to stay together. I think at that time and in that culture that it was very very difficult for a woman whose husband abandoned her.

How bad? I am not sure - would she be left with her kids and no way to support them? Would she have her children taken from her? Whatever happened it would not be like now where the family might be able to continue a good relationship and the state support the parent not working etc! Would she be sent back to her family 'in disgrace'? So to be 'dumped' might have had much, much more devastating ramifications than it does today. As well as the personal and social ramifications, monetary and situational ones, which may have meant disaster for a woman.

I do not think that this passage means that today if a woman or man is trapped' in a painful or abusive, or even a loveless, marriage that they are obliged to stay together. I know there would be some Christians who may think this but I am pretty sure when the rubber hits the road many Christians would want to be compassionate and supportive of people going through painful divorces.