Religious politicians

[pocketsaviour]

I've been watching House of Cards on Netflix over the past few weeks (so good!)

It struck me how much talk there was about God and faith during speeches to the public. It was clearly very important for Frank Underwood (the anti-hero, if you haven't watched) to be seen as religious - but it was also very clear that it was a complete act. But the President, in season 2, gave a public speech where he spoke about having "consulted with god for the answers" (I forget the exact wording.)

What do you think people's reactions would be if one of our top politicians started to come across like this? I really don't think it would fly in this country, but then my friends are mostly atheist.

Interested to know what others think!

I agree re it doesn't fly in this country very well (haven't seen the US HoC yet). I can think of a few examples of leaders doing something natural to them as slightly or very religious people which seemed absolutely fine (e.g. having children baptised, Major saying 'God bless' at the end of a speech) but any hint of using religious practice as some kind of political message and I would just want to puke.

I believe I'm right in saying that Margaret Thatcher was one of the more religious PMs of the 20th century but she kept it pretty dark overall, apart from the St Francis' Prayer moment when she was elected, and that became such a laughing stock talking point that I think her team took the point...

My DH is American and I lived in the US for 12 years. Americans are generally much more religious than Europeans and especially Brits. Although the majority of people who create TV and film are skeptics and Atheists they are not a true representation of the country as a whole.

It has been claimed that Tony Blair believed God wanted him to go to war in Iraq to fight evil. While TB was in office his spin doctors tried to keep his faith under wraps because they didn' t think it would play well with the public at large. I think they were probably right!

I can think of a number of MPs who have a faith - Frank Field, Jon Cruddas, Jack Straw spring to mind pretty quickly; Nicola Morgan, Lady Warsi on the other side of the house. I'm sure a search would bring up more, those are simply the ones that spring to mind.

Of course, it may be that your faith influences your values and the whole way you live your life, not in a 'running every decision past God' kind of way but as a set of beliefs and commitments that flow into your political beliefs and commitments.

Not sure if you would HAVE to be a believer to be elected but if you came out as against religion and cynical and critical of it that attitude or philosophy would definitely hurt you. Hilary has never given the impression that faith is important to her and she is the Democratic front runner. However, I'm certain I read she is an active member of a church, I think she might be Lutheran or Episcopalian.

I was wrong, according to her Wikipedia page she is Methodist.

Well Roy Hattersley's dad was a priest!

heylilbunny i thought some of the most interesting sections of hillary clinton's autobiography were about the influence of her religion on her politics.

But still... there is a picture in the book of Hillary and her prayer group having a barbecue (actually the kind of barbecue I like, involving sitting at a table with linen napkins). I would feel actively allergic to the idea of David Cameron having a regular prayer group at Number 10, and certainly can't imagine any British politician voluntarily publishing pictures of themselves at a religious event outside school assemblies and just possibly a Christmas service. And yet why? Nothing wrong with prayer, I believe it changes the praying person for good even though I am an atheist. I just deeply mistrust any public performance of religion, as opposed to actions in the public sphere that suggest a person has a particular ethic.

Well as there is a very strong and legally defined separation of church and state in the US public expressions of religion in politics don't generally happen. If politicians have prayer groups privately that is their business. I'd be more worried if my MP was a member of the Masons or other secret society. Christian churches are open to all and the prayer groups may be multi faith. Don't forget about Jewish and Muslim Americans as well as those of other faiths.

The history of the political elite in America until the late 20th century was WASP. Don't forget that it was a big deal that JFK was Catholic and he had to convince suspicious Protestants that he didn't have a hot line to the Pope.

David Cameron is an interesting case. In his recent piece about Easter written for a – presumably – mainly Christian audience he managed to sound committed without committing himself and did a soft shoe shuffle round the whole Jesus on the cross part.

www.premierchristianity.com/Topics/Society/Politics/David-Cameron-s-Easter-Message-to-Christians

He said:

Easter is all about remembering the importance of change, responsibility, and doing the right thing for the good of our children.

A political message with the word Easter tacked on at the front somewhat incongruously?

He quoted Churchill too, saying:

The only guide to a man is his own conscience …

So, we don’t need the Church and its teachings for that sort of thing, then? Well, yes and no. A couple of years ago, commenting on the bible, he said:

You can find moral guidance from other sources but it's not a bad handbook.

So I suppose he’s hedging his bets and trying to keep everyone (who can vote) happy. Although, I think if I were a staunch Christian, reading that last comment might make me feel that my faith was being damned by faint praise!

I don’t want to do David Cameron a disservice, but I wonder if he found out that a large section of the voting public believed in Heffalumps, whether we might be treated to the sight of DC jogging through Hyde Park wearing a ‘I Love Heffalumps’ t-shirt – served up with a Heffalump-friendly sound bite:

Heffalumps were a big part of my childhood. Without believing in Heffalumps, I would not be the man I am today. For me, Heffalumps embody Britishness. I value their pluck, their sense of fair play and their willingness to go that extra mile to the polling station with an elderly tory or two in the back of their cars.

Vote Conservative – it’s a vote for Heffalumps!

Here is David Cameron kissing a lamb on Easter Sunday. (No Heffalumps were available at the time.)

The Guardian did a most efficient demolition job on the shallowness of Cameron's 'Christianity' in its Good Friday editorial. Interesting coming from a paper with deep roots in free thought and secularist traditions.

Interesting comments all.

Re David Cameron, I found this Guardian piece from Easter 2014. I very much read that as a response to the Church's comments, in the weeks prior, that he was basically doing a crap job.

outwith Heffalumps .

The trouble with Cameron and his stance on faith is that I get the impression, like Outwith, that he will basically just do whatever his PR wonks say is suitable. I don't think we would ever get a true picture of his personal beliefs because he will always go with whatever the latest opinion poll says.

To be fair, it must be incredibly tricky when you're trying to appeal to a broad as base as possible. On the one hand you need to espouse a generally Christian ethos so as to not put off the largest majority of religious goers in the UK. However, appearing "too churchy" would definitely put off the more secular voters. He also needs to play it cagey to woo the Muslim voters to his side (who in 2010 tended more towards Labour.)

Pretty much the only thing I admire about Nick Clegg is he's always said "I'm an atheist and that's that". No fudging around in a desperate attempt to gain ground with religious voters.

This is really interesting - a breakdown of the votes in 2010 from different religious groups.

a flyer for our labour candidate came today. I agree with a lot of his policies, and then saw the statement that he is a christian and a regular church goer.

now, that's his business, but I found myself thinking that I'm not sure about him if that really colours his life. It really depends how tolerant and open-minded he is, and I can't tell that from the flyer.

irrelevant as we are in a solid tory seat, although that doesn't affect how I vote.

Fascinating link pocketsaviour. I find it oddly touching that Buddhists are more likely to vote Liberal Democrat.

A poll commissioned by the Church Times (pay wall so no point in linking) showed that something like 49% of Church of England members intended to vote Conservative, which is rather depressing if, like me, you're an Anglican Labour voter. On the other hand, the proportion of those intending to vote in any way was higher than the general population (as, indeed, is the percentage of people volunteering and the amount of charitable giving).

I tend to suspect that the support for Conservatism is linked to establishment and age of congregations, and that it will wane as the older generation of Anglican church-goers die off. It would certainly be interesting to see a breakdown of those figures by age.

I find that depressing too, niminy. I do wonder what overall stats are across different denominations - I think the c of e is more likely to have that larger proportion due to its demographic.

Was reading an article in premier magazine about percentages of Christians who'd responded to a survey about what they'd voted in 2010 and what they'd vote this year. The scariest thing on it for me was that the UKIP percentage had risen fairly sharply while the Green percentage had fallen. I find this incredibly worrying and want to go and shake people a little bit.

There was quite a good article by Michael Gove of all people on this very subject in the guardian recently. I really, really wanted to hate it. will try and find it but on phone.

While politicians, just like normal people, have a right to believe whatever crap they like, I wouldn't vote for one who banged on about his/her imaginary friend. Especially if I thought the politician was actually being sincere. I'd be worried about what might get done in the imaginary friend's name.