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Original poster

Religion is good because it gives the believer an objective and absolute standard of morality

638 replies

Vivacia · 25/03/2015 18:33

(This idea was introduced in another thread, but it felt like an unfair tangent for that thread to be taking in my humble opinion, but one I'd be interested in discussing).

Firstly, I absolutely disagree with the statement.

Secondly, I feel as an atheist I have an objective morality, if not an absolute one.

OP posts:
headinhands · 06/04/2015 18:16

I didn't mean so much how they're acting, just the very act of being in a romantic sexual relationship with a consenting adult of the same sex. Nothing to examine there surely?

capsium · 06/04/2015 18:32

There is always material in the Bible to be examined regarding any relationship, head, and how people treat one another. However if love is seen as the first priority, regarding how people treat one another, there is not much getting away from this.

Added to this, Romans 14:4-5 says,

"4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind."

So this shows we should not judge one another and let each person be satisfied in their own conscience. So it it for the individual to examine their own behaviour.

keepitsimple0 · 06/04/2015 20:36

I don't think that's ignoring reality, but choosing accountability, choosing to do what God asked of me, and being concerned at the fact that most of humanity have most of the time not behaved in the way God asks of us when it comes to the poor.

I assume you think god wants you to help the poor. Why doesn't he help the poor? Why ask you? your help is greatly limited. his is infinite.

Why do I do that? I do that because I experience it in my life, and many others in theirs (just to qualify it's not all about me), again and again.

I don't see how he can be just. If he can fix this mess, he should do so. He allows children to die daily. There's no freedom in that. they didn't have any freedom.

It didn't stop them trusting and loving me, because they experienced my love for them. God's love for me is something like this, the experienced, warm love of a parent, but the love that doesn't mean things are perfect or that stuff doesn't go badly wrong. it doesn't mean it's non existent, this love.

I assume no one claims that you are all powerful, loving and knowing. That's the small difference between you and god. Your children know there are certain things beyond your control. my guess is that you think there is nothing beyond god's control. so why does he allow all the suffering.

DioneTheDiabolist · 06/04/2015 21:16

The atheist stance needs no defending.

Is that why you chose it Head?

headinhands · 06/04/2015 22:39

nope dion, it was were I arrived after examining.religions.

DioneTheDiabolist · 07/04/2015 00:13

Examining religions?Confused

catkind · 07/04/2015 01:55

So what it boils down to is this "absolute, objective" morality consists of you doing whatever you feel is a good thing and everyone else doing what they feel is a good thing. Wow, religion has added a lot of objectivity there.

headinhands · 07/04/2015 07:41

How do you make decisions then don?

capsium · 07/04/2015 07:45

Romans 3: 23-24 says,

"23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:" (KJV)

I never claimed to be completely objective and absolutely morally good, myself. However I believe God is and I believe He is in me, with me. I know I can make mistakes though, if I do not discern Him fully, according to my belief. Since the nature of God holds mystery for a mortal human being, mistakes (including those of a moral kind) are not unusual.

From a non religious perspective, most would acknowledge moral values are informed by the society people live in, through interactions with people and the mass media. Those who are religious are engaging in interactions of the religious kind, which can have an affect on them, in this way. This doesn't mean people of no religion do not examine and evaluate what is good and moral and their own conscience - just they don't hold my God an authority, as I do.

capsium · 07/04/2015 08:01

Tbh, if you are only ever seeing a brutal, vengeful, murderous and uncaring 'god' in the Bible. I would agree you are best not believing in this or basing your morality upon it.

Thankfully, this is not what I see or take from the Bible and is my own interpretation, which affects my own morality.

headinhands · 07/04/2015 08:10

But how do you ignore/reconcile the awful stuff? God obviously wanted that in the bible .

fulltothebrim · 07/04/2015 08:15

This is the part I don't get either. God is a murderer, a killer, He has anger management problems. Is jealous, spiteful, and sounds a nasty character.
Why do you want to worship someone who thinks it's OK to kill babies and keep slaves? If he was human he would be in a secure facility.

ChaiseLounger · 07/04/2015 08:21

I like niminy post about 'being good', conscience - 'do unto others as thou wish to be done to yourself' . Is actually s really nice sentiment, I mean I'm not sure how anyone could ever argue against that.

fulltothebrim · 07/04/2015 08:25

Altruism was not invented by christianity.

capsium · 07/04/2015 08:37

I have told you head, through Christ. I believe God is best understood in Christ, who I believe embodied God, whilst being fully human. It is easier to appreciate God in terms of seeing Him through Christ, as in human form He experienced this world as a person would. An eternal, all seeing, all knowing, spirit being is more difficult to relate to fully, as we are limited in our mortal bodies.

fulltothebrim · 07/04/2015 08:38

OK, but god still seems to enjoy murdering people.

capsium · 07/04/2015 08:39

^but that is an aside and not the question posed by the OP.

capsium · 07/04/2015 08:40

Full I worship God as I understand Him and not as you do.

fulltothebrim · 07/04/2015 09:06

capsium so the bible can be discarded? Or only the bad bits.
If you choose to side with a venegeful murderer then you must share the same amoral stance.

capsium · 07/04/2015 09:22

Are you the authority on the Bible and how it should be interpreted full?

If you believe 'god' is a construct, then do I not have ownership of my own?

If you believe God is real, what makes you an authority on Him?

fulltothebrim · 07/04/2015 09:31

capsium, I am as free to comment of the construct of god as you are.
THe fact that you have swallowed the lies makes you no more an authority than me.

capsium · 07/04/2015 09:36

If you believe, the God I believe in, is of my own construct, then it is still my own individual construct. And I am the authority of my own constructs. As you are of your own and I don't like the sound of what you have attempted to construct for me, so I'll keep my own thank you.

fulltothebrim · 07/04/2015 09:39

THe construct of god is not yours alone capsium- what an arrogant stance.

capsium · 07/04/2015 09:45

God is not my own but constructs are individual. If you are talking about a construct, I own my own.

fulltothebrim · 07/04/2015 09:47

So no society or community capsium.

You have completely constructed your god from scratch.

Well done.

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