How do you feel about the state of the UK?

[CharlotteACavatica]

I rarely come accross anyone that doesnt have ALOT to say about how bad its all getting, me and dp are planning to move abroad to get away from this fast declining country - but how do all of you people here feel about it? My sister thinks this country is great and its getting better if anything!!!

mopsy, that was my reaction. SSandy says that she has seen it near where she lives in Berlin. I assume it is because of the high crime rate there.

nearlythree, for your interest: I live in Germany and am the victim of racism in 2 separate areas of my life at the moment. There is not greater racism against jewish people than against any other race, ime. Most of what I have seen, is directed against turkish people.
BTW, number of jewish people killed in germany during the war was 165 000. Shocking and bad, but hardly wiping out a whole race. The rest of the oft quoted 6.5 million was in other countries.

A friend of mine is living in Canada for her husband's work. She was back for a visit recently and said that for standard of living and quality of life, Canada was better in every way (!) than Britain. BUT she really missed the British people - sense of humour, general attitudes etc. She reckoned Canada would be paradise on earth if it was relocated to Britain or the British moved to Canada.

No disrespect to Canadian MNers but, what do the British MNers think - should we all move on mass?

You're probably right. It's the usual stuff that people get upset about - graffiti, litter, crime etc. Yet 99.9% of British people are the salt of the earth - a tiny minority make the country seem cr*p for everyone else.

couldnt agree more fortyplus. Unfortunately its the same tiny minority that owns 95% of the country.

Swifter, I found your post highly offensive.

"Charlotte-have you been to australia? having lived there, yes would be a lovely place to bring up kids...if you are blonde, blue eyed, play sport and have nothing unusual about you. Personally I would like my children to mix with different cultures and not spit on aboriginees when they walk down the street. oh and its blinkin hot. "

Of course there are racists and bigots everwhere, but on the whole I have encountered more since I lived in England than I ever did in Sydney. I'm sorry for you if you have had a bad experience in Australia, but the notion that all Australians are racist and narrow minded is just plain wrong.

I went to a very diverse school in Sydney, with Chinese, Greek, Italian, Korean,Indian,Jewish, Aboriginal and Anglo kids and would never, ever dream of spitting at an Aboriginal person in the street. Never. And neither would anyone else I know. I know there are some serious issues with the Aboriginal people in Australia and their poor quality of life etc, but I have the uttmost respect for their culture and sincerely hope for better outcomes for them in the future.

And,its not even true that it all blinkin' hot. Some is, some isn't.

Charlotte, If you want some informed advice and opinions on emigrating, go to the living overseas/emmigrating topic and post there. There are loads of Aussies in the UK and Brits in Australia who will help you out.

Oh, and someone else mentioned that the Problem with Aust is that the wages are low. This is only true if you are converting £ to $...the $AUD is weak against the £, but if you are living and working there the cost of living is lower.

Regarding the original post - There are lots of silly things I don't get about England, and some things I don't like as its not my home. But I think the worst thing about it, by far, is that the people are so down on the place! On the whole, I think its a beautiful and interesting country, and you Britons have a lot to be proud of.

just wanted to let you know texarose, my DH is a NZer and we are emigrating out to NZ purely because we have a choice and we can be mortgage free there and i don't think we will ever be here. the education system is not one i'd allow my children to be in here. NZ is cleaner, more outdoor way of life, people are friendlier, less rude, more considerate,less selfish (this is my opinion overall) more child friendly. i am well aware the healthcare and further education side is going to hit our pockets more than over here (but then that may change too in the future, we are taxed by stealth all the time and the cost of living is very expensive over here) and there are issues.
on immigration, being married to a NZ and have 2 children with NZ passports i still had to jump through hoops to get a visa. (and pay a migrants levy to cover the cost of non-english speaking migrants to take english lessons) since i got my Visa you also have to have an HIV test. if you are not married to a NZ have to prove that you can support yourself for the first 2 years so i do think english immigration laws should be equal.

sorrell -
you wrote that you are "very proud of our history of accepting and welcoming immigrants" WHAT?????? am i misunderstanding you????? I'm not sure there is much to be proud of with the history of the Britsh Empire - the crown's way or no way - oppressing and enslaving of people - believing only the white british way was the way to live - believing they had a right to own people and claim their land - that the indigneous population were immediately thought of and treated as savages because they weren't Christian - not treating the people which the british government invited (on a promise)or FORCED over into this country as equals - the lives that have been lost(death and by years in prision) for human rights over decades, women's and race to name but two, - and in more recent times (ie today)the fact that people still turn a blind eye to race discrimination and discrimination in general. But based on "our history" is it any surprise that after 100 plus years of this mentality some white tossers still think they are more superior than someone of a different colour? and why some people are still pi**ed off about how their anscestors were treated by the so called (in your eyes) people to be proud of? and hence why there are still issues hanging around today. i can't change history and i'm not responsible for it but i'm sure as hell not proud of our history of our accepting of other nationals and customs.

suggest you learn a bit about the history of this country and what really went on and i'm not on about the doctored versions you've based your opinion on.

Had a bunch of Aussies living next door for a year a while back - they loved it here but said they'd be glad to get home as there's a lot more space - we all live in such tiny houses! Mine's a spacious 4-bed semi on a 100' plot, but they are 2 teachers who own a detached house on half an acre plus 4 other properties they rent out - so wages for teachers out there can't be too bad.

The things they particularly liked about the UK were the attractive towns & varied scenery, plus the fact that we have so many footpaths etc and other means of access to the countryside.

They said they have public parks but no access as of right to land owned by other people like we do here.

They love our sense of humour, which is similar to theirs - they reckon that Americans don't get it.

They were from SE Aus, where the climate is similar to Cornwall, apparently, though hotter in the summer.

That corner of Aus is very cosmopolitan - lots of immigrants of European and Asian origin. Racism not a problem other than the fact that people still look down on 'Abo's' due to a perception that they are mostly drunks always trying to claim some area as an ancient burial site so they can make money out of tourists. And I'll stress that that's the Aussies' words, NOT MINE.

What do other Australians think? - is what I picked up from my neighbours reflected in the majority of the population?

Just fine.

But then I live amidst countrified semi rural privilege....

Schoko - correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't the concentration/death camps run by the Nazis? Eg Auchwitz was established in Poland once that country was occupied by the Germans.

The number of Jews killed in Germany may "only" have been 165,000, but surely Germans were responsible for many thousands if not millions who died outside Germany.

Sorry, absolutely off-topic, but couldn't let it go unremarked.

on the contrary merlotmama, there were many foreigners in the German army.

I recently discovered that there was an Indian brigade fighting for the Nazis, on the grounds that at least they were against the British, so they couldnt be all bad. Ho hum. Bad times.

I'm more worried about global warming, tbh. Want to know where it's going to be safe to live when it all kicks off - which will be in ds's lifetime, if not mine. Wouldn't move to Spain, for example, or anywhere else which might be short of water!

Things I hate about this country: the fact that we are so bloody supine faced with a government that is ripping up every right we have to live our own lives without state surveillance. Awful transport system. Ridiculous cost of living esp. housing.

But we still have stuff to be proud of. The NHS (however much we love to knock it). A proud history of ordinary people fighting for democracy and civil liberties. The fact that we do suffer post-colonial guilt - other countries with empires don't seem to give much of a toss about their legacies (and put much less effort into dismantling them). The fact that we were the first western nation to abolish slavery. The way our culture prizes humour in everyday transactions (although that could also be why we haven't had a revolution since the 17th century).

Bad times, indeed, Schoko.

You may not intend this, but you do sound like you're making excuses for the Holocaust:
The Germans only killed 165,000 in Germany and anyway, there were some foreigners there as well, so it wasn't all them.

For my part, I'll do the playground bit:
But they started it!

Samwhite ? I think it is only fair to point out that the average New Zealander is not living mortgage-free. The majority of the people living mortgage-free in New Zealand will be those who have made their money somewhere else and moved to/returned to New Zealand and bought a house. As a consequence of this, house prices have risen dramatically in New Zealand and a lot of first time buyers find themselves in the same position as first time buyers in the UK ? faced with a huge mortgage in comparison to their earnings.

I?m not even sure that the average Brit aspires to own their home mortgage-free until the term of their mortgage is up, so your proposed ability to live mortgage-free in NZ says nothing about the state of the UK but says a lot about the wages paid in NZ Vs the wages paid in the UK. I?m not knocking NZ, simply pointing out that you and your husband have gained something positive from the UK ( a high level of equity) to allow you to move to NZ and own a house outright.

When I hear that our country?s obesity increase is the highest in Europe or that we?re the least energy efficient in Europe or have the highest teen pregnancy rate in Europe, it?s frustrating, because I am from this country and those statistics do not represent who my family are and how my family act. I myself have looked into moving abroad for a few years. I?m still on the fence about it but I have found that once you go digging deeper you start to learn that there are positives to the UK and negatives to other Western countries. You need to arm yourself with a realistic picture of what life might really be like living in another country. Of course the positives you gain from that country may signify your priorities for living a good life but it?s unfair to say that the UK is doomed and there?s nothing here worth living for when plenty of people live a good life here and find many UK-only positives which contribute to that.

I agree with Zog about the media and reporting of the news. If we had a few months of responsible media coverage of the news, people might start to view their lives and the UK more positively. We could benefit from some more positive thinking in this country. I?ve stopped watching and reading sensationalist news and started to judge my life more on what happens when I step outside my front door. It?s a fairly ordinary but nice enough life.

I do feel the government needs to do some serious investing into improving public transport before hiking taxes on air travel, petrol, road tax, etc.

I know many people who geniunely have NO other option than to drive to get to their work, and they simply cannot afford to live close to their work, either, b/c house prices and rents are so steep.

I remember listening to a discussion on Jeremy Vine's show and a guy called in moaning about all the immigrants in the country. Consequently, he was moving to France. Jeremy Vine asked him, "Well, won't that make you an immigrant?" and the guy hung up!.

Britain, like all countries has its problems but it is not as bad as the moaning nimbys make out.

I would also like to add that most immigrants to Britain are white but those moaning about immigration seem to think that it is only non-whites who are invading this fair isle.

expatinscotland - totally agree re: public transport. Just got back from Belgium - on Brussels Metro a group of up to 5 people can have unlimited travel after 9am for 6 euros 70. And they run regularly, they're clean and not too crowded.
Our trains are a joke - how can it be so much cheaper to fly? Surely if you can fly to Scotland from Luton for £15 then London to Edinburgh shouldn't be any more? I think it's about £75 - crazy!

I am Canadian so I guess that I am one of the immigrants that is helping lower standards in this country! But of course, I'm white and my native language is English so I guess those of you obsessed with immigration wouldn't think I was a 'real immigrant'.

I love living in the UK. The media (particularly the Daily Moan) hypes up the negative in this society. The NHS is generally fabulous; if you are really ill, you will be seen quickly and for free. The private/state education thing is also overblown. A lot of state schools are very good and it is down to parents to get involved in their child's school to help make it better. The thing that gets me about any debate like this is people complaining but not doing anything. If that is your attitude, then life isn't going to be very nice anywhere, is it?

Just to add - I have heaps of friends living in NZ. And what do they do? Well, given that most of them are of British ancestry, they moan about their country, of course!

Also - one man's heaven is another man's hell - my dad left NZ because he was bored and was lured to the UK by the bright lights of London. He now works in one of the most beautiful and interesting buildings in London, eats his lunch on the roof (unless it's raining!), looks over London and considers himself one of the luckiest men alive.

And another thing! I can't remember who said this but there was something I read along the lines of "It's all very well producing lists of schools that are failing their students, but how much longer would the list be of students failing their schools?" That is absolutely true. I went to a state comprehensive and did well and got a 1st class degree (not wanting to boast ). My brother, whom I consider more intelligent than I, but a darn sight lazier, came away with virtually nothing. Same teachers, same parents, same opportunities...(he eventually blagged his way into Aberystwyth and got a good degree!). Also, I know enough privately-schooled friends to know that it's not always the best set-up for every child.

Where you happen to live is only part of the equation determining your quality of life and what kind of people you become / your children become. It's about how much you are willing to give to life as well. That's my philosophy anyway!

Have I gone and killed another thread?

merlotmama
You used the word ONLY, not me. I am not making excuses for anything. The true facts and figures speak for themselves, they do not need exagerating.

Don;t see it as killing the thread, texasrose. You and newkid made some good points I think.

People with so much passive anger and resentment towards their own country are maybe kidding themselves that those feelings can be stopped by moving to a new country. However, they might be a driving force behind having the courage to take the leap.

IMO, if all the moaning nimbys left, we would not miss them and the country will still continue to be the 4 largest industrial economy in the world.

Yes we have problems of social economic imbalance that is fed by the malaise of apathy, paucity of opportunities for a significant minority, pessimism and feelings of exclusion that must be addressed. However, we should not lose sight that this country provides opportunities for social enhancement through education and enterprise. I speak as a black woman of immigrant parents who used the much maligned state education system to improve myself socially as well as economically.

lol speedymama - I love the sentiments that you've expressed there

Although a long term immigrant(East African Indian by birth), I see myself as English and my loyalty is to this country first and foremost. I can't help feeling that the standards of the NHS etc have lowered to a certain degree due to the demand put on them by the large influx of recent immigrants which as a service it wasn't equipped to handle (bit like our having to deal with an unpexpected storm here and our drainage system being unable to deal with the flooding). Having experienced the maternity system both in London (where a large proportion of patients were recent migrants) and in the Cotswolds (larger number being indigenous) it was clear the difference in resource implications. They did, however, cope admirably well, in spite of the lack of resources in London (I am sure others might dispute that). If, however, this country was so poor why would the immigrants want to come here in the first place? I think they (we) are right....it is a great place to live, relatively.

Nearlythree - on Friday, 27 October, 2006 2:23:52 PM
"New Zealand is always talked up, but a friend of ours is a nurse there and their health system sounds appalling. £20 a time for anyone over three to visit a GP - and they want to extend that to newborns. A&E at collapse b/c families use that (usually rather late in the day) as they can't afford the GP fees. A whole hospital with two junior doctors staffing it at night. Meningitis at epidemic levels. High teenage pg rates and problems with drug-related crime."

I would love to know where your friend lives - as her information is mainly wrong! The health system is NOT appalling ....
Yes, we have to pay (under 6s are free and I have not heard anything about having to pay for younger ones in the future) but considering there is only a population of 4 million people and probably only less than half of those pay any tax (working population) there isn't much money in the pot to give us the state of the art care that we wish for. So I, for one, do not have a problem with paying to see my GP ... I get A1 care from him. I have never had to wait for an appointment, he has seen us in his lunch hour if necessary. I have never had to wait at A&E ... My DD got First Class care at a hospital that has a special CHILDREN's A&E department as a baby (where she got her own room with a bed for me and DS and I got lunch and dinner there)
As I pay I think twice about going to the doctor for a mere fever or sniffle .... so I am not guilty of stretching the resources ....
It is means tested too... so people who have a community services card (benefits) get a lot off their GP charges.
Meningitis is not at epidemic rates ... that is a myth. Having said that, they don't take any chances here ....
I won't go into the differences in having a baby in NZ compared to the UK.

I am ranting in DEFENCE of NZ by the way -

I love England .... I miss it too. But we couldn't afford to live there. And we can afford to live here. We didn't have huge amounts of equity to bring here. But yes, someone said earlier, house prices have rocketed in the last 5 years, very much due to money coming in from overseas and ordinary kiwis are finding it hard now .... the cost of living is high here ... $ for $ ... but if you bring pounds in you are laughing.

As a Global Citizen (British Passport - soon to be Kiwi citizen, born in South Africa, brought up mainly in Holland, lived in Spain, moving to Australia ) ... Every place has its pros and cons .... my phrase is: Same Shit, Different City ...
My DH rang me the other day and said, "Oh you will love Melbourne, the shopping, the restaurants .... "
My answer was, "I don't go shopping or go to restaurants here ... tell me about schools, kindergartens, playgroups, kids activities .... "

No matter where I live that is my reality ... can we afford to put food on the table and have a reasonably decent life? Yes? Great .... so be it UK, Australia, NZ, Outer Mongolia, the Moon ... all have pitfalls, all have great aspects to them ....

Ramble over ....