How do you feel about the state of the UK?

[CharlotteACavatica]

I rarely come accross anyone that doesnt have ALOT to say about how bad its all getting, me and dp are planning to move abroad to get away from this fast declining country - but how do all of you people here feel about it? My sister thinks this country is great and its getting better if anything!!!

phantomrantum - NOWHERE is exempt, its a case of weighing up pro's and con's, some countries are better for us financially, better propsects for our kids etc, but at the same time have other problems, for example our desired destination is Australia, and as i dont live there yet im not aware of all its problems, but so far i have been warned about the extreme heatwaves, deadly creatures, earthquakes, problem with co-existence with aboriginals, aside form the last, i'd take my chances with mother nature of Tony Blair and this P*ss-take of a government anyday!!!

Ah yes Australia, I think we are bothering the Prime minister there today with our Muslim obsessions

The problem with Australia is that wages are very low. That's why you can't walk down a street in Britain without bumping into a load of Australian street cleaners whopping with joy over their incredible new-found wealth

I agree with soapbox

You really need to try and live in some other countries to find out how much there is to appreciate in the UK.

(Fwiw, when we lived in SA, we certainly didn't live amongst some expat community or drive around in an armoured vehicle but then again, my parents were very anti-apartheid and did a lot of work for the local people so I realise we may not be typical of those who lived there)

DH would move to Australia tomorrow but I am of the "grass is always greener" opinion. We have so much to be proud of in this country and although there is room for improvement on the whole I want to stay here and raise my family. I would like to move out of London though because of schooling choices and congestion.

My original point was exactly the fact that different countries offer different things, "because no matter where you go there are bound to be trade-offs" (sorry quoting myself is quite poncey.

Wasn't having a go Charlotte, just suggesting that the "dream" of living elsewhere often bears little or no resemblance to the reality as others have said. And really the only difference between politicians here and elsewhere is the accent that they campaign/propagandise with...

I have never lived abroad. In fact I've hardly been abroad so I haven't really got any other countries to compare the UK with, but...imho ( i.e. what I have experienced personally as oppossed to read about in the media) Britain is a good country to live in and compared to a lot of people we are incredibly lucky.
I also think that the UK is miles better than it was 20 years ago. Tony Blair may not be perfect, but compared to the she-bitch Thatcher and her cronies he is positively god-like)

phantomrantum - im more than happy to accept that, im under no illusion that some countries are 'paradise on earth' if that was the case everyone would live there!! i think britain is good and as far as some country's go its bloody fantastic, but as far as my kids go, i feel they may have a better life elswhere, i may be horrendously wrong, and if i am, then we will have to think again, but at the moment we simply cannot afford to live in this country, and the climate will be better for ds1 and ds2's Asthma (i hope)

Sorry that last post was put wrongly - contradicted myself somewhat, i think UK has far too many problems and i dont want to raise my children here, but as far as some places go it is a good country, id just like to 'try' another way of life.

Can you point out exactly where I have ranted?

I answered the question posed in the thread title. Is that not allowed?

Last time I looked this wasn't Charlottesnet.com!

New Zealand is always talked up, but a friend of ours is a nurse there and their health system sounds appalling. £20 a time for anyone over three to visit a GP - and they want to extend that to newborns. A&E at collapse b/c families use that (usually rather late in the day) as they can't afford the GP fees. A whole hospital with two junior doctors staffing it at night. Meningitis at epidemic levels. High teenage pg rates and problems with drug-related crime.

I love our NHS! Could be better, obviously, but I've used our GP three times this week at short notice and got free meds for my kids.

Violence, disrespect and crime are everywhere. Better the devil you know IMO.

This country has many faults but I couldn't live anywhere else.

I also know two people (both colleagues of mine) who emigrated to New Zealand and have since come back here. According to them, there are lots of good things about NZ but lots of bad ones too, which we never hear about here. Terrible attitude to the environment (even when compared to the UK) and appalling racisim (one colleague witness an adult male punching an asian girl (aged about 10) and no-one said anything / stopped them).

I think it says much more about the British character than the actual state of the country that people complain all the time.

Take te 'crap towns' survey - (we made the top 50! ) We love to moan - esp. when it doesn't acually lead to any positive change; it's just scratching an itch IMO.

Personally I have benefitted so much from the NHS and if I had to pay full price for all the services and drugs I have received I'd be bankrupt (seriously). In her 4 yrs my dd has benefitted hugely too. There are big issues (e.g. round here they are shutting down most services in our local hospital and moving them to a town 8 miles away which is nigh-on impossible to reach by public transport and impossible to park anywhere near).

I work in education and see the problems / huge injustices of the 'comprehensive' (hmmm) system and yet I also see the successes and the young people who achieve astonishing things sometimes in the least likely circumstances.

As I'm getting older (!) I am getting more political in the sense that I am seeing that these are my problems because they directly affect me and my family. So instead of moaning I have turned into one of those smarty pants types who writes to her MP regularly and to various Cabinet ministers. It beats complaining for the sake of it! Maybe by the time I'm 60 I'll have turned into 'Angry of Tunbridge Wells' (not that I can afford t olive there...)

Nowhere is perfect! My dad is Kiwi and NZ is not perfect either (altho it is pretty fab).

I agree texasrose. I get a lot out of supporting various organisations - The Refugee Council, Christians Against Poverty , Liberty for example - who are trying to change things for the better. (Writing to my MP is a waste of time so I try to target MPs who are interested or the minister/shadow ministers responsible.) I also think it sets a valuable example for our dcs to show that we have a duty to speak out against injustice, to get involved and that we can change things (in theory).

I think that even if it doesn't make a difference, it's still worth having your say, saying it clearly and to the right person.

Not to be defeatist, but for example my dd's school is almost certainly going to be amalgamated with another primary down the road. That means upheaval for everyone, some teachers will lose their jobs, both schools will lose their identities, we will lose some of the lovely green fields which will be built upon, the kids who live further away will have a much longer walk to school, leading to yet more congestion as parents drive their kids, which in theory could lead to yet more obesity / lack of exercise in those kids. It all comes down to money (as ever) and we've worked it out that to keep both schools open would cost each family £100 a year extra in council tax. Obviously it would be impossible for many families to afford that and unfair of the council to ask. It seems pretty impossible but so many people (inc. me) have signed petitions etc and gone to public meetings.

What is that Dylan Thomas poem? 'Do not go gently into the dark night' (the Welsh half of me rises up in dragon-like indignation at the parlous state of the UK...)

I was simply answering the original question that you asked, Charlotte, and in doing so giving my opinion. I am not criticising your opinion, merely stating that I look at the issue from a slightly different point of view having lived in some of the countries that have been mentioned as well as in the UK. I wish you all the best wherever you end up.

Fair enough look for somewhere better, but I don't think you can really criticise the conditions you live in here. You talk about the "immense cost" of living in this country - millions of Africans manage to live on less than a dollar a day - cheap enough for you? Living in this country makes you one of the most privileged in the world - stop whingeing!

I think the only good thing about living abroad is the weather really. There are problems in this country but lots of the more recent problems are imported. One particular one which I abhor is the American rap/gang culture, tis horrible.

Well I would probably still be living in the UK if I could afford a house in a decent area, and childcare so that I could work.
If youve got somewhere nice to live, and a job, then its probably not too bad.

yes, schoko, but that applies EVERYWHERE. Wherever you are in the world, if you are lucky enough to be able to afford those things then life is better. There are always people who can't, it just depends on whether you are one of them or not.

Sorry MoaningPaper - but I live in Spain - Madrid - and it's a beautiful city with drinkable tap water, a great FREE healthcare system, less crime than London and is incredibly child friendly. DP and I were thinking of moving back to the UK (we've been in Spain for over six years) after birth of ds but we now realise this is a much better place to bring a child up. Everyone makes such a fuss of him, whereever I go and there's no problem b-feeding in public or taking him into a restaurant, for example.

I think it would be a better place if it was impossible to survive without working (with a SMALL no. of exceptions obviously) We're now onto the 2nd or even 3rd generation of people who have never seen their parent(s) working hard EVERY day. I think this is where the rot is coming from.

Impychica has a great point about child-friendy Spain, and I'd take it further and say that in my travels so far Britain comes last in this.

phantomrantum - in Germany, the equation is possible. I can earn enough, to afford a nice place to live, and childcare. The health system is also better, and the crime is lower (my children were walking to school, for example). Its also cleaner.

I have a lot of problems in Germany, mainly due to being a foreigner, but so far I dont feel that our lives would improve by going back to the UK.

Those of you who live in the UK - you just dont know how much better it can be in other countries!

dommiconnor - pah, munich is the child-unfriendliest place in europe. beats even the UK!