A not intended to be inflammatory question, bun fighters not welcome

[MrsWinklepicker]

I am an atheist, I didn't choose to be, it's just that fundamentally I believe there is no God. I have been exposed to Christianity but it makes no sense to me the idea of there being a God (in the same way as I guess it makes no sense for Christians the idea of there not being a God).

What I don't understand is that if there is a God (I guess I'm talking about the Christian God) how has he created me as incapable of believing in him? I am not exercising my free will, it's just that given the proven facts, my brain will not take the leap of faith required to believe in God. My point is that it's not a choice, you either believe or you don't. I could go to church every week and join in with prayers etc but it wouldn't change my beliefs. It seems a little unfair if Christianity is correct (or indeed any other religion) and I am excluded!

Can anyone explain this to me?

Out I don't think there was one single experience that 'compelled' me to make the assumption that God is true. There were many. Essentially I wanted to believe. If I had gone with the opposite assumption I could see myself getting quite caught up in a relativist, post modern, point of view and this would really lead me to question if there was such a thing as 'free will' or whether our actions are governed by our genetic makeup and past experiences. This line of thinking is unsatisfactory to me, restrictive, I prefer to believe in God.

that should say 'solely^ governed...'

A really interesting post Outwith. I guess we'll never know for sure, but as I say the question has always fascinated me.

I haven't read all the posts but I don't think it is a question that can easily be answered. I was raised Christian until about 11. I never truly believed a nd I turned to paganism which helped me through severe depression. In my opinion religion is a man made construct to help us understand why we are here and to give our lives purpose. I also find that all religions are similar at their core and practice very similar things. You can find links from everything in Christianity back to pagan practices from before Christianity begun.
I think whatever floats your boat and makes you happy as long as you don't impose those beliefs on others.
I think at the end of the day whatever deity may or may not be there doesn't really care what every individual person does with their lives because at the end of the day they are immortal so our life time is nothing to them.

OP, I think you might be going round in circles with your original question. It is only if you believe that you were created by God that you could logically question why some people appear to be created in a way that makes it difficult for them to maintain religious faith in that creator. By definition if you reach that point, you are no longer one of those people. I just don't think trying to work out why a process that you don't believe occurred, resulted in you being unable to believe it occurred, will get you very far.

I do understand what you mean though, and I understand the desire to ask that question. I just don't think it can be seen through to a meaningful conclusion for you at the moment.

OP - in the christian tradition really they should look to what their supposed saviour said and answer you from there in which case they'd have to quote that bit about 'let those who have ears to hear hear' etc. and the seed parables where the seed is scattered but only grows on fertile land. some are explained as incapable, death to truth or too hard a ground for 'life' to grow on etc. i don't know if people are being polite or not getting the scripture

BUT personally i really, really, don't think this teaching was about christianity anyway nor was the jesus recommending anyone start another religion. but yes - the 'those who don't convert' are explained in the story as bad land or vines that can't bear fruit etc.

for those saying 'atheism' wasn't satisfying for them well no it wouldn't be - it's simply the lack of belief in the historically constructed god of bible etc. every adult must decide their own meanings, values, reasons and codes to live by, engagements with nature or their own consciousness etc. religion doesn't have the market on this.

and i know many people who went via atheism to a different kind of spirituality more experiential than dogma based but in terms of practices looking more eastern than the abrahamic religions and world views they were raised in who still could not say they believe in "God" but certainly have a rich spirituality and sense of connection to the universe and the living things with in it and the order by which the universe appears to work that actually doesn't exclude in the slightest science or rationalism itms because there is no dogma.

off track a bit but hope the first bit about what jesus taught helps OP

I'm meant to be getting ready for a training day so can't answer you fully, but briefly:

The Bible says (paraphrased) that no person can come to God without God instigating it. That doesn't mean that people are robots. It doesn't mean that we have free will. It means that God sets things in our path to reveal Himself to us. That may be experiences, encounters with people, etc. The parable of the blind man with scales over his eyes (John 9:6) was an illustration of this.

My personal belief is that simply by having the thoughts and questions you have, you are opening your heart to the possibility of God. There are actually lots of biblical verses which point to the existence of God. Hard, factual truths that were written in the Old Testament but only discovered by man hundreds of years later.

God is a gentle God. He knows what you can handle and how fast to reveal Himself.

Honey Regarding the seeds growing, plants can still grow on pretty stony ground - it is possible. Eventually the plants break up the stones into rubble. Look at these:

www.google.co.uk/search?q=overgrown+abandoned+cities+images&client=ms-opera-mini-iphone&channel=new&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=0qn4VIKJO4rg7AbzjYCgDA&ved=0CB4QsAQ&biw=1024&bih=658

It has to be a very hard stoney ground indeed that no plant can grow on at all.

^ and eventually it becomes fertile soil...

I was listening to a Pastor the other day. He was saying that often there is so much going on in our daily lives, we don't hear God when He speaks to us. Or sometimes, we are so far from God, we don't hear Him.

MrsWinklepicker

What is the life force that allows your body to breathe. I am choosing to answer your first post with the answer that god is intelligent consciousness. Not a being with a body.

I think that we were created as pure energy form (a soul, if you will) and that when we come into our human bodies, that we are 'cut off' from the full soul power. As we travel through life, questioning and desiring to know our creator, our soul energy can become more embodied in our biological form, shifting our perceptions and our sensations.

As with every ray of sunshine on our physical bodies, like an energy bath, we can choose to make the connection with our creator - no church required! No judgy pants required. We just make the inner quest, and our soul energy start connecting. The soul energy is always connected to the consciousness fields of energy where the creator is, and this is our bridging back to the intelligent consciousness of which we are all a part of. Some choose to enquire within, and some do not.

Some examples of scientific facts written in the Bible hundreds or thousands of years before they were accepted or discovered by scientists.

And what is so wrong about believing the Bible, BigDorrit?

BigDorrit, that's ok. I remember feeling similarly. I'm not trying to win you over. I'm just explaining my earlier statement.

The fact is that if you have no faith, and no desire to have faith, then you are not going to accept anything a Christian says.

I have no doubts, by the way. I have lots of questions, but no doubts.

Not convincingly enough for me BigD.

Your making some big assumptions concerning me, BigDorrit. All because I'm Christian. And you knock me for my belief....

MrsWinklepicker, it may be that you simply haven't had your questions answered in a way that you identify with. If you are open to the possibility of God, then I believe He will reveal Himself to you. It might not be when you expect it, though.

This is a great thread - well mostly anyway
Thanks for the interesting read.