Have you ever seen a ghost?

[BCBG]

Serious question - have you ever seen a ghost? If so, why are you certain about what you saw? Could it have been a natural phenomenon? I ask because something I saw is preying on my mind. I was driving through a village on the East Sussex border one afternoon last year, thinking of God knows what, radio on, when all of a sudden the car filled with the smell of fuel (which makes me feel ill ). I then realised a plane was flying very low left to right across the road, so low that I thought it would crash. I couldn't see any markings on the plane but I remember the shape very clearly. I don't remember whether or not there was any noise, but I was so shocked I brought the car to a standstill and looked back across the road. I realised that to my right the land fell away very sharply, so it would have been possible for a plane to fly over me and then clear the trees heading off over the valley (i think) except that I couldn't see any plane. I honestly stood there and listened for an impact. I could still smell this incredible odour of aviation fuel (like when you are crossing the tarmac sometimes on a small airport and the wind catches you, only much stronger). Never thought about ghosts before, but I still wonder what exactly I saw that day.

Re. The OP's post, I think she/he posted the same thing in a woo thread in chat and it was explained by someone else who lived in the area. It wasn't a ghost plane.

It's sad that these threads often turn nasty.
There may be no proof of ghosts or other woo things, but at the moment, science is capped at our human capabilities, it's rather arrogant to assume that we are at a point where we know everything.
At one point rainbows and comets were considered supernatural, until science caught up and explained them. The thought nowadays that a rainbow is a bridge to the Gods is laughable, because we now have the answers.
It's fair enough to not believe, it's absolutely not ok to belittle other posters because they don't hold the same belief as you.

"it's rather arrogant to assume that we are at a point where we know everything"
But nobody does assume that. However, we do know quite a few things. Like how to explain every single paranormal event that has ever been properly investigated.

It's really fucking embarrassing that people who profess to be rational, scientific thinkers will scream and insult anyone who challenges their rigid belief system.

Funnily enough I have never seen, on this section of MN, a religious poster devolving into a frothing fury because their beliefs have been challenged - as they so often are, in very disrespectful and arrogant ways.

I sometimes wonder if posters on here who profess to be atheists are actually deep cover agent provocateurs working for the Westboro Baptist Church, on a mission to smear atheism. After all, who wants to stand up and identify themselves with aggressive, arrogant, socially inept arseholes?

"It's fair enough to not believe, it's absolutely not ok to belittle other posters because they don't hold the same belief as you"
Does that mean you can't point out when people are talking complete rubbish? Do we have to respect everything? However outrageous?

There is an option to say nothing.

You don't always have to educate people. There is also never an excuse to belittle anyone, but it never fails to happen on these threads.

What do you mean by a "rigid belief system"? It's not the rationalists who are saying "I know what I saw- I am going to believe I saw a ghost regardless of any attempt to offer a different explanation (cf the piano making noises passim)

Oh, and what's the relevance of atheism? Are you just using the opportunity to have a pop at atheists or is there some connection I don't understand between atheists and ghosts?

It's really fucking embarrassing that people who profess to be rational, scientific thinkers will scream and insult anyone who challenges their rigid belief system

Actually, it's rather more embarrassing to indulge in this kind of extreme hyperbole.

Nobody has screamed or and nobody has insulted anyone else.

I sometimes wonder if posters on here who profess to be atheists are actually deep cover agent provocateurs working for the Westboro Baptist Church, on a mission to smear atheism. After all, who wants to stand up and identify themselves with aggressive, arrogant, socially inept arseholes?
I have nothing to say to this. I just wanted it highlighted.

Not even respectful of mnhq eh lemon now there's a surprise

This thread gets weirder.

No one gets respect by default. No one.

It's the online equivalent of walking up to a group of people, merrily having a drink and sneering "You'll get liver disease you know!".

That's embarrassing. Sometimes your opinion isn't necessary.

LemonCream, we understand your point but with things like religion and spirituality we think really, everyone has to agree to disagree, or where would we be? The thread is being rather derailed by folk who, by their own admission, have no interest in the subject matter and regard is as woo

Well, you know, with deep and abiding respect, I disagree with you. Completely.

People agreeing to disagree, or where would we be? Well, you'd be without a discussion forum at all, wouldn't you?

Not believing in woo does not mean we have no interest in it. In fact, we have a lot of interest in it because it hurts people.

I also cannot even begin to see the logic between "This is religion and philosophy so everyone be nice". Religion is, by default, a lovely thing, huh?

I'm with MN Towers - can't believe my thread has come back to life - and LeChien no it wasn't 'explained' by someone who lives in the area - although their theory was interesting - I live smack bang in the area in question and have done for most of my life. FWIW I think that we know little about resonance and imaging and that what we 'see' at such times is not an apparition but an image, which is why such 'hauntings' are repetitive, truncated, and disconnected. Do I think that spirits are trying to connect in some way - absolutely not. Do I think that there is a faint possibility that science hasn't caught up with the facts yet - yes.

It's the online equivalent of walking up to a group of people, merrily having a drink and sneering "You'll get liver disease you know!"

No, it is not.

There is no online equivalent of walking up to someone in the street.

"It's the online equivalent of walking up to a group of people, merrily having a drink and sneering "You'll get liver disease you know!".

No it isn't. It might be the online equivalent of going up to a group of people telling each other that if they eat goji berries with their gin they definitely won't get liver disease and saying that they are making a mistake and suggesting they do some research on the mitigating effect of goji berries in alcohol consumption before they sink the next bottle......

*If I die and then realise that I am, you know, still here know what I'll do?

Find the nearest scientist and tell him/her. No mirror messages written in steam, no wobbling the curtains and making him/her feel chilled...I shall communicate the extraordinary information that I have somehow survived my own death.*

Ghosts don't do this, Lemon. and nor will you however much you may wish to.

They are, I think, simply a vision of some other life. You will not be able to truly interact (I don't think). You will die and be gone, possibly something of you may remain in pictures, or sightings but that's all. Sorry.

" The thread is being rather derailed by folk who, by their own admission, have no interest in the subject matter and regard is as woo"

I have a lot of interest and a significant amount of knowledge about the subject matter.

It's quite telling that you regard offering or looking for rational explanations for paranormal phenomena as "derailing",,,,,,,,,,,

There is no such thing as ghosts. Anyone who thinks there is is not only wrong but rather feeble of mind too.

And for those of you who think "Why does it matter?" - tell that to the little girl beaten almost to death because she was "possessed by demons".

This perpetuation of irrational, wrong beliefs in the supernatural is causing havoc on our planet. And it's being fed by a nonsensical, vapid insistence that all beliefs (no matter how cretinous) are worthy of creeping, obsequious respect.

I think the moderator of this thread is overstepping her remit, somewhat...probably got a ghost story of her own to account.

"Does that mean you can't point out when people are talking complete rubbish? Do we have to respect everything? However outrageous?"

No, but however much one person doesn't believe in God and woo, there isn't actually any concrete evidence that it doesnt exist, and as such it's not on for some posters to be so rude.

BCBG - sorry, I was sure I'd read that it had a plausible explanation. Have you seen anything since?

Lemoncream one last time, I'll try. I don't believe in the type of ghost you think about, I don't.

But some bloke was in front of me 40 fucking years ago and then disappeared.

That's called a ghost and it was right actually there. I'm am not of feeble mind and if I am now, I bloody wasn't then. Actual FFS.

That's called a ghost and it was right actually there. I'm am not of feeble mind and if I am now, I bloody wasn't then. Actual FFS.

So do you actually refuse to even consider a non paranormal explanation?

Bertrand. Please explain as it has mystified me for so long.

Bloke in garden. Enclosed walled garden btw, no entrance from street. So he must have leapt very quietly from our neighbours back garden, in his smart white shirt, black high waist trousers, polished tappity shoes; appeared before me for 10 secs max, before utterly disappearing before my eyes?

I call this a ghost. I wouldn't know what else to say?
It was our back garden. If he'd run through our house my family would have bumped into him, 8am, eight people milling around school and work. They would have seen heard escaping ghost man yes?

Or, or ghosty jumping over the fence? I would have spotted that!

No. He just disappeared, in front of me.

Hallucination. You dropped off for a moment and dreamed it. It never actually happened but your memory has tricked you by making something you read in a book seen real. (This one is very common- it's a very frequent explanation of past life memories). Someone told you a very vivid story. It was actually a person, but you only remember a snippet of the event.

Human memory is incredibly unreliable. And it is terrifyingly easy to plant memories, or to turn fiction into fact.

I agree Bertrand with your last sentence.

However. It was not a hallucination. It was early morning. I remember it like it was yesterday. My sister saw the same chap later in the night. She was frightened.

Bertrand, everyone who witnesses anomaly cannot be hallucinatory? Wouldn't it be easier for you to think 'some things are unexplainable.'? You don't always need to win the argument you know .

There is a reason 8/9 year olds are not legally able to stand trial for crimes or have difficulty acting as witnesses (which can be unfortunate in some crimes) there perception of facts and understanding reality versus fantasy or a remembered dream is often suspect.

I used to having a reoccurring dream as a child whilst being awake, particularly when I had a temperature. I had done something so terrible the world was going to end. it was real, I was awake. As a rational adult I know what I believed was caused by delirium and growing up in 1960s and awareness of the constant nuclear war threat in the news.

The strange man buttoning up his shirt was much more likely to be a man the mother/ or maybe father of the house was being visited by (if you get my drift) but no doubt remembering him as a ghost is probably a more comforting recollection.

There/their, whoops.

"Bertrand, everyone who witnesses anomaly cannot be hallucinatory? Wouldn't it be easier for you to think 'some things are unexplainable.'? You don't always need to win the argument you know smile."

I'm not trying to "win". It's a fact that every single time any paranormal event has been properly investigated it's turned out to be a natural event, a misunderstanding or a hoax. And yours is the sort that fits into the "false memory" category of natural events. You say yourself it was 40 years ago. Think of all the layers of memory that have been laid over it since then. Think of all the layers of memory that were laid over it by the following week! Your sister? You told her about it- she said "of course I saw that too" so she didn't feel left out, or to show she was even better at seeing ghosts than you were(!). And within a couple of days she as as sure she had seen it as you were. So you see, it is explainable.