Struggling with my faith

[fourrugrats]

Hya, Im hoping to to get some help from Christian mums and maybe even a kick up the bum! Short version is my husband became a Christian last summer and got baptised, so all good for him. I have always believed in God, but from a more spiritual point of view, so that's all good. We have 4 children, 2 of them grown up now and this is where im struggling. They don't come with us to church as None of them beleive in god but I understand this is their choice. I have become aware recently that us following the Christian faith will mean our children are destined for hell, and this terrifies me. I don't want to turn away from god, but im frightened about my children. I have prayed about it so many times, but can't seem to move on from the fear. I haven't been able to find the words to try and explain this to my husband. Does anyone have any thoughts on how to move forward with this? Thanks if you have read this far!

I am a Christian with 5 DC ranging in age from 17 to 23. 3 of our DC are Christians the other 2 are not. It bothers me terribly, but someone once said to me that all you can do is pray for them and believe that God loves and cares for them more than I could ever possibly do. Even my non-Christian daughters will ask me to pray for them if they are struggling with something in their lives. I just hold onto the fact that God answers prayer and will bring them to a place where they make their own decision of faith in His own time.

It is their own choice and all you can do is show love and demonstrate how God has impacted on your life through actions in everyday life. That is a far better witness to them than ramming your faith down their throat all the time.

I haven't rammed it, although sometimes they ask questions which I try to answer. So it's carry on, and see what happens! Thanks. At least Im not alone in worrying about this x

Oh no sorry, I did not mean that you had rammed it down their throat at all!! It is just sometimes I feel like saying things to mine that would be far less than helpful and I have to remember to keep quiet.

How does you following the faith mean your children are destined for hell? If they are destined for hell it is because of their own actions and you turning from God won't do anything. In saying that, I do not believe in this traditional idea of hell- and I believe in a god who will allow people to atone for their sins ( including rejecting the notion of God) .

For many people their faith or lack of is less of a choice and more of a product of their environment. Does God shun children who have not been brought up to know him? I don't think so. Likewise, for people who on earth are confused and overwhelmed by many contradictions, will he punish them for this? Or, when the time comes, will he reveal himself and they will see?

My husband was brought up in a faith and has questioned it's validity for a long time. He does not pray, does not attend mass and leaves most of the faith development of our children to me. I know his mum prays for him regularly and I home he won't get into Heaven- but he is a good man, who lives his life according to every commandment bar the first. I may believe There will come a day when he will be called to task over this decision and atone for it, but I so not believe he will be denied a relationship with God ( ie go to Hell) for all eternity.

Spinaroo, if the faith is accurately believed, the only way into heaven is through Jesus, and therefore god, as they don't beleive, they won't get there. I like hearing other peoples opinions too. Maybe Im over thinking things, as I tend to do sometimes!

There is a range of views about what hell might be and whether it even exists within the breadth of the Christian faith. Rob Bell wrote a very readable book called 'Love Wins' a few years ago which challenges some of the views that are found in the more conservative churches. It might be worth a look.

I agree that Jesus said' I am the way, the truth and the life- no one can come to the father except through me'- people will perhaps feel I am interpreting this to suit myself but there is nothing that says it has to be in the timeframe of life on earth. My main reason for interpreting it thus is that if we are all children of God- and I believe we are- are the only people who will be able to enjoy eternal life with him those people who, by perhaps simple geography are Christian? By this reckoning, less than a third of the worlds population will be able to access the kingdom of Heaven- I am Christian but I just don't buy it-Thomas doubted him and he revealed himself again.....

I agree with you Spinaroo. I also don't think there's a literal Hell. Rather that for some it may feel like Hell when they first meet God because the realisation of what they've done in this life (for example murderers) will be really hard to deal with in front of the perfect God and we will all grow closer to God and enter the Kingdom of Heaven (whatever that means) eventually - some just may take longer / find it harder than others.

You may have to accept that you have it all wrong. So many faiths disagree and yet all convinced they have the truth- but thay can't all be right.

I am an atheist yet have christians in my family.

If god was so loving and caring he would welcome everyone into heaven - sounds pretty mean to send some to hell just for never having had the opportunity to discover christianity.
That means that lots of people in the world- indiginous rain forest dwellers, children, those of other faiths will be barred from heaven simply by an accident of birth.

So either:

1. This whole idea of heaven and hell is rubbish

or

1. God is a pretty vain malicious god.

Do you see your non-Christian children as somehow lesser, inferior, less deserving or worthy of less respect for their beliefs than your Christian children?

1. if yes, then I suggest that instead of worrying about them going to hell, you worry about your own attitude and whether you are being the best sort of person that you can be.

2. if no, then do you really think that your God is a meaner, more petty being than you are?

The only endgame in this life is to be the best people we can- to be compassionate (or loving, if you prefer that terminology) towards others and to find happiness for ourselves in doing so. Some people find that having a faith or religion helps them achieve this, some people don't find them helpful. If you are following a religion for any other reason, including having some sort of reward or preferential treatment along the way or at the end, then you are doing it for the wrong reasons and missing the point.

There is so much to say (and to worry) about this subject. I struggle with a dd who is a vocal atheist, yet quite unhappy in her life dealing with mental health problems which I think she partially blames on her upbringing. Will she go to hell if she does not 'repent'? How would I know? I believe in a God who is merciful and just and who sees the hearts of all people more than I can. He sees the struggle people have to deal with and He cares. I like the hymn which says 'there's a wideness in Gods mercy' and which says 'but we make His love too narrow'.
I also take to heart that we should not 'judge' other people but leave the judgment to God in His mercy. He can do much more than we can ever imagine. All we are required to do is to love to the best of our ability

Hi, fourrugrats, I am an atheist mum but I hope you won't mind me writing down my thoughts as I find the concept of selective salvation fascinating.

It does not surprise me at all that you are struggling to reconcile yourself to the teachings of your faith on the afterlife and all that it implies for the fate of your beloved children who are non-believers. If I were a Christian, and were feeling compelled to accept the idea of selective salvation, I know that I would find myself resisting the notion desperately with all my heart - and I would feel that way even if all my family shared my faith. Of course, as you have mentioned, orthodox traditional teaching does contain the message of exclusive salvation for Christians as exemplified by the words of John.

Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them.

However, there are other places in the Bible, where a more inclusive tone is adopted:

In Corinthians, for example,there is:

As all die in Adam, so all will be made alive in Christ

And in Timothy:

We have put our hope in the living God, who is the Saviour of all people, and especially of those who believe.

So, the Bible is not consistent on the issue, leaving leeway for interpretations. There are, and have always been, Christians who have been able to hold onto the principle of salvation for all within the wider framework of their faith. Many theologians have written about this idea.

I wonder if you might be able to embrace the idea of universal salvation within your Christian faith too?

OutwiththeOutCrowd you're right in that there is huge leeway for interpretation. I used to worry about family members not getting into heaven but as I read more into it and discuss with my vicar (or rather vicars, various along the way), I started to think there's not an actual physical Hell. The passage you quoted:

Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on them

I think it can be viewed as not seeing life in the sense there will always be something missing without God. I know you're an atheist but assuming for the sake of this conversation God is real, one could say that without truly knowing about the love of God, there will always be something missing, that one doesn't really experience the true brilliance of life. It's a hard passage tbh but I do think we've got to remember that whilst the Bible was inspired by the word of God, it was ultimately still written by men. Also, through the many translations over the year, perhaps the original writer didn't intend the word wrath to be translated as that.

Thankyou everyone for your comments. Its certainly given me a lot to think about!

My mum has had a lifelong terror of us children going to hell. I can't tell you how it messed us up - we've all been gripped by terror at various points (my sister had hypnotherapy to address it eg).

All I can say is there's something about it that just isn't right. By her reckoning I'm in the pearly gates when the time comes - the others aren't - but that rabid fear has nothing to do with God. I'm sorry I'm not making much sense here... but her fear is all wrong imo.

Perhaps address the fear rather than what the fear is about.

Hello fourrugrats. I'm sorry you're feeling worried about this.

The first thing I'd say is that I think Christianity and particularly the idea of hell has been terribly, terribly misrepresented and misinterpreted over the centuries, generally as a means of control over the masses - threatening people with eternal torment, people are more likely to fall in with demands for money or control or whatever else. Sadly this has led to many people living in fear about themselves or their loved ones.

I could go into far too much detail here, but the idea of hell in the bible never actually means being punished or tormented forever. (in fact the word 'hell' is never used in the OT and the word translated hell in the NT does not mean sitting in burning flames forever - yy to reading 'Love Wins') One camp would say there is universal salvation - Christ died for all, so all are saved. Another would advocate conditional immortality - that those who accept Christ go to be with him, those who do not die (but are not 'tormented') - this second camp would generally say that God is just and 'is not willing that any should perish'. I believe God is a God of complete and utter justice, therefore the idea that only those who are a Christian in this life get to heaven is unfounded, for we do not know how God judges, all we can know with absolute certainty is that God judges with fairness and according to each person's own choice. It would be an arbitary and unfair god who would say that only those who had heard about Jesus, for eg, could be with him for eternity. The NT makes reference itself to those who had not heard about Jesus in the OT - Hebrews talks about Abraham and says that his faith was credited to him as righteousness - explicit statement that getting 'into heaven' does not depend on knowledge of Jesus.

I believe that Jesus is 'the way, the truth and the life.' I believe he is the only way to the Father. I also believe that we cannot possibly know how this works out in every person in every time in every place, but do believe that because of what Jesus did every single person will have a clear choice to make and God will be just.

I want my children to follow Jesus, yes, because I want them to find the life in all its' fullness that entails in this life and for them to spend eternity with God, but conversely if one or both of them decide against it, that is their choice, but I will not worry about hell in the tradional sense, because I do not believe in the traditional doctrine of hell. I would prefer to concentrate on all the good in this life for them while still offering the possibility of the life I know to them - again while respecting their choice and loving them always, whatever choices they make.

Sorry this is longwinded. I would encourage you do some reading round about new thinking on hell, it may reassure you. I've just become increasingly sad and angry at the traditional controlling message we have been given.

god will be just

How could it be just that someone who believes in Jesus regardless of what they have done will have eternal life, whereas someone who doesn't won't get eternal life even if they have been a loving and good person. A system where you are valued by what you are able to believe without evidence is ridiculous. Imagine you are the only Christian in your family, you start eternal life knowing you will never see your family again, they might not be suffering but you have to live for ever without them and that your god didn't give them eternal life because he/she saw no good reason to think any of it was true. That is not just.

I am not a christian but i do believe in a higher power.
I think that our actions speak louder than our faith. At the end of the day whatever may be out there in ypur case god, probably only cares about whether people have done the right thing in their live. As long as we live well and do good as best webcan surely that is all that matters. Surely it mens more to do good things and not pray or believe than do bad/evil things and be a believer and pray.
What im trying to say is as long as you and your children are good people than you will end up together wherever that may be.

Its one of the problems with the whole heaven/hell idea. God promised you as part of the covenant that if you obey and worship you get eternal life and will be reunited with your loved ones in heaven, but if one of your loved ones doesn't measure up they go to hell, therefore you cannot be with them in heaven so God has broken his promise to you. Somewhere someone has lied to you.

There's no such promise as in 'being re-united with loved ones' in the NT or OT, cdtaylor - there is promise of eternal life with God for those who choose that.

headinhands hello :) Hope you are well. Yep - it sounds so unfair, doesn't it, that someone who has done evil all their life then suddenly repent should be allowed to have life eternal. That's the thing with grace and mercy, though, in our human eyes they are not fair constructs, but God loves so much, so utterly that scandalous grace is freely given. I love my children so very deeply; I would hope that if they turned into nasty people that I would be able to forgive them, out of the depth of my love. God does more than this - forgives and forgets, and offers life. I love grace.

Those who 'have been loving and good people' - I trust God, actually, the bible testifies to me of ultimate justice (and justice for those who are completely evil too) - and have no worries about whether he will be unjust.
No one 'deserves' eternal life - but everyone gets a choice - whether they've 'heard of' Jesus or not.

I know this sounds like so much idiocy, in the light of 'logic' and 'reason' but Paul did say the message of the cross looks like foolishness. And it does - glorious, incredible foolishness. And that's OK.

Fourrugrats, It is not my intention to offend, but I will say this:

When we are born, if we are born into a family who does not observe god as their creator, do you think they think they will go to hell? Those who have no teachings to follow?

If something we don't know about exists, how can we protect ourselves from that?

What you have shared is a fear. A fear of not doing the right thing, by your children and your faith. I can understand this.

However, with all the different religious beliefs on this planet, how can one truly know the truth. Don't we all have the same biological bodies? So, how come we are all the same yet are divided in what we choose is the truth for us?

A basic teaching is that if we follow our hearts or truths and hold virtues of kindness, bestowing upon others that kindness, then we will only know the afterlife plane that is in the light.

I ask you to please stop becoming anxious and thinking about being judged, by your peers or by a god or by teachings from your own choice to believe in the religious teachings that you follow. This is controlling your thoughts, and your life, worrying. Worrying creates more fear!

Let yourself lead the best life you can, guiding your children to lead their best lives too. With the highest capacity of love for all humans, regardless of what book they choose to follow. If hell existed, it might actually seem like parts of the planet today for those who are enduring the most awful circumstances, whilst we are here deciding if god thinks we are doing good enough. Wouldn't god provide us with a way to avoid the hell realms? I think we already know the answer to that, it's to choose love, in all ways.

With much love, and no intention to offend, just my tuppence!!!

IB x

but Paul did say the message of the cross looks like foolishness

all religions and superstitions look like foolishness to me though, I don't see how something looking silly is actually proof of it's validity, do you believe in every other superstition you find foolish?