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Original poster

Bible study: Book of Job

72 replies

niminypiminy · 18/11/2014 16:03

Inspired by a discussion elsewhere on MN, I thought I would ask is there anybody who'd like to do a Bible study thread on the Book of Job? I thought we could do it chapter by chapter.

All would be welcome -- Christians, Jews, Muslims and people of any other faith, and those of none.

OP posts:

FaithLoveandGrace · 28/11/2014 16:39

Definitely livelablove some of the best pastoral care I've received is from people just sitting with me, either quietly or sometimes talking about other things, just general things to take mind off my troubles.

I can't see this as a simple test of character. In the last 5 years quite a few young people (including a few babies) I know have died in pretty unexpected ways. I can't see it that God is simply doing it to test any of us. I don't think we'll ever truly understand the reasons why these awful things happen to each and every one of us at some point in our lives.

Dutchoma · 28/11/2014 16:56

I still think of the book of Job as a parable. It makes the point that we need to trust in God even if we don't understand Him.

And let's be honest: do we really want a God we can understand? We, all bears of little brain? I don't understand lots of things, I haven't a hope of understanding God. And I'm with Job when he says: should I only accept God when He gives me good things?
However hard it gets, God is still God and He is the same today as He was yesterday. Read Psalms 42 and 43 in the context.

innerstrength100 · 28/11/2014 18:41

Yes - I also agree with what you have said here about just sitting with someone. This actually came up in conversation with a lovely friend today, who, many years ago, had a full breakdown. And she said that she couldn't cope with any questions or demands, or anything asked of her; looking back now she says what she appreciated was her family just sitting with her, quietly, and asking nothing of her.

This is probably also a lesson to me in my own current very upsetting situation. Maybe I should be just sitting and showing support (it would be from a distance though, but still making it clear I am here for him, albeit remotely), rather than keep pushing for things to move forward...

QofF · 28/11/2014 18:56

Think his friends behaviour is such a lesson in how to be a friend through the hard times (at least at this point in the story). To not always dive headfirst into the situation trying to fix things because sometimes just being quiet, being there and letting them know they are not alone is what is needed.

QofF · 28/11/2014 19:01

The thing that is just so incredible about Job is how definite he is in the truth of who and what God is and how that remains throughout his suffering. Not that he doesn't suffer because of it or question things but just that despite everything he knows God is good, is constant and is there with him.

FaithLoveandGrace · 28/11/2014 21:47

I've been listening to a song lately and it really resonated with me this evening, especially after this bible study.

It's Jimmy Needham's In The Middle and I particularly like this bit:

"I believe that God was there
Watching over us
I believe He heard our prayers
He cried along with us
Even when our hearts are scared
He's closer than He seems
And I can hear Him sing"

I think that's one of the things we can take from Job. That no matter how bad things seem, God is there for us, He cries with us in our pain and even when we can't see or feel Him, he's always closer than we think.

Original poster

niminypiminy · 29/11/2014 09:16

I'm struck by how Job's wife says to him 'Will you persist in your integrity? Curse God, and die!'. Integrity means wholeness, and to be a whole person for Job means trusting in God's goodness even when it seems to be flying in the face of the evidence. He won't turn on God because he would be letting go of all he is too.

And, it seems to me, that what Job is holding on to, when he holds onto God, is hope. He won't turn away from God, and die, because God is his hope.

OP posts:

Original poster

niminypiminy · 01/12/2014 08:33

Time for the next chapter?

I've linked to two chapters, 3: Job curses the day he was born, 4: Eliphaz speaks: Job has sinned.

Bible Gateway link

OP posts:

QofF · 02/12/2014 08:12

i think if Job is to be taken as a lesson in how to suffer this lament shows that there is a stage in suffering where ranting, not understanding, questioning and raw hurting is part of the process and that it is ok at this stage not to be able to see any sign of light. I think sometimes we are so quick to feel when we suffer that we need to move on, get it together, focus on the positives and not be self indulgent or self pitying and take control of our lives that we don't give ourselves the time just to suffer. Maybe there is fear of the rawness and agony of this level of emotion and pain so we try and bypass it as quickly as possible?

Original poster

niminypiminy · 03/12/2014 09:28

I think that is very wise, QoF. I think the writers of the Bible, especially the Old Testament, knew that suffering is part of life, and that you can't go through life without it. I love the psalms of lament, where the psalmist offers up to God his misery, his anger, his resentment and bitterness. Job's lament here is like the universal voice of suffering, as you say, it's raw agony. I've turned to this passage myself to find words for something I'm feeling.

OP posts:

FaithLoveandGrace · 03/12/2014 19:09

Sorry for the delay in replying.

I agree with what you're saying QofF and Niminy. You both have very wise words. Perhaps then instead of trying to see positives etc we should accept times of suffering. We should learn to live in the moment, knowing that one day there will be light again but it's okay to feel down / upset / angry etc - much like when we have a physical illness such as flu we must learn to accept the down time of resting without pushing ourselves to get better.

Lilieshill · 20/12/2014 10:00

Hullo, i have been thinking about all this. I really like the views expressed by qoff, nimimy and faith. I think for me one of the messages is that bad things happen, even to good people. Bad things happening to you does not mean you are being punished. If it can happen to Job, it can happen to anyone.

innerstrength100 · 20/12/2014 11:12

Yes, I totally agree Lilieshill.You just have to have faith that this has happened for a purpose, and you will learn from it, and be led to where you are supposed to be.

Dutchoma · 20/12/2014 11:38

The thing with Job is that he keeps focusing on God: I know that my redeemer lives. I know.

FaithLoveandGrace · 20/12/2014 18:30

You all have very wise words. We can certainly learn a lot from Job and the way he handles things.

Is niminy still about? We've not moved on for a while, it'd be a shame for such a good thread to die out.

livegoldrings · 27/12/2014 21:14

Now Xmas is over I would like to get back to this study. I hope those who were having a hard time are OK. I am going to reread the chapters 3 and 4 then will report back.

livegoldrings · 27/12/2014 21:54

Jobs lament is very moving and speaks across the many years since it was written. You can tell it was written by someone who truly knew suffering. It is interesting that although it is mentioned it was important he did not curse God, he does curse the day of his birth, he wishes he had never been born.

livegoldrings · 27/12/2014 21:57

In chapter 4 we move on to the words of the friends, which is a bit confusing as they are later said to be wrong, however they do say some things that make sense so how much of what they say should we pay attention to?

QofF · 29/12/2014 08:27

I think that when you take the friends opinion in context of what we know, that God is not causing Job's ills or punishing him, then the words become pretty hollow. And sounds like he is one of those annoyingly pious types who feel moved by the spirit to tell you things that are exactly what you wouldn't want to hear when going through what Job is going through.
Glad this thread has started up again

livegoldrings · 29/12/2014 19:47

I think it is very interesting that this ancient book of the bible, challenges some beliefs that people mistakenly fall into even today. People often think that misfortune is proof of sin. In this chapter Eliphaz also says he has had a vision in which a ghostly figure asked him if a man can ever be righteous before God when even the Angels are not. This is something a lot of Christians also believe and that they are only saved by the intercession of Christ. However I think this chapter shows that God does not think that way, he cares for us and has mercy upon us and also he does recognise when when we do right, like Job, even if we are not perfect. I have been reading a few commentaries on this readings and they pointed out that this shows we should be careful about believing visions or the visions of others and question if they really come from God very carefully.

livegoldrings · 01/01/2015 23:04

I have moved on to Job 5, which is a continuation of Eliphaz's speech. The language is beautiful and poetic, I love the phrase in verse 7 "but human beings are born to trouble, just as sparks fly upward". It is a very black and white view of God he presents here. If you do wrong He will crush you, if you do right He will look after you and protect you. You can see why this is a belief people want to have, if they just do right they will be O.K and God will give them a good life.

QofF · 04/01/2015 14:36

Love that phrase about the sparks as well. Think if I was Job I would have punched his pompous friend at what he says in this chapter. The " oh you'll have loads more children" type of comment therefore dismissing the fact he has lost all the ones he already had and the self assured belief that he has understood God's way and truth and Job needs to accept what he is saying as given. Think there are so many warnings here re how not to be a friend to someone suffering!

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