Non Catholics Taking First Holy Communion....

[CooeeeMrShifter]

Can anyone give me some insight please?

My DD is due to take her First Holy Communion this school year with the school and there are a lot of families that are members of the local Pentecostal Church that are putting their children in to take their FHC within the Catholic Church. In conversations recently, it also seems to be that a number of the non Catholic parents have produced some dodgy looking Catholic Baptismal certificates (friends saw these).

I was wondering: if they are non Catholics, are they actually allowed to take their FHC in a Catholic Church.

Does anyone know?

Thanks in advance.

But FrancisdeSales, what you say is only what the previous pope said, which I interpreted as 'please respect our right to be bigoted'. Fair enough. I respect your right to be bigoted. I have never taken communion in a Roman Catholic Church. I might do one day though, because I know that no God would object. Some misguided people might pick nits over it though.

I guess what it boils down to is that some RCs like FrancisdeSales prioritise Roman Catholicicism above Christianity whereas it seems to me (?) that prioritsing Christianity above any division within it seems more truly Christian and therefore a better way.

I didn't realise this had gone to a second page. Manpire you seem very angry that Catholics so not believe as you do. This teaching on Holy Communion has not changed, it remains the same from time immemorial. Pope Francis and Pope Benedict will be in agreement with this, they will not be in conflict with each other.

No one will be questioned if they approach the Communion rail to receive. But it is dishonest and God will surely know as Corinthians 1 states - we must not receive in the wrong disposition.

wow! if i took communion in my father's family's church I'm sure God would be happy, he wouldn't be thinking of corinthians 1.

it's really dangerous to start obsessing over ancient texts because that is when people start justifying homophobia etc...

I'm not angry! it's just interesting to see prejudiced defended with such denial. I think the new pope is a decent character and a huge improvement on previous popes, so, no, not angry at all why would I be. People like yourself are fairly rare these days so I've no need to be angry.

I think you will find that everything I am saying is the teaching of the church and a lived reality. It is ancient and ever new. I don't stand out at all at my Catholic parish. Our youngest child has not received his First Holy Communion and comes forward with his arms across his chest for a blessing in the Communion line.

You are calling me prejudiced and I am sorry you see it that way. I am just a Catholic who believes as the church currently does and always has. I don't demand that any Protestant church changes it's teachings. Peace to you.

I truly do not believe that God would think me dishonest if I took communion in an RC church. I don't do it, because I consider it impolite to go against the rules of a place I am in as a guest.

But God knows what is in my heart, and I am 100% certain that he values that above a set of rules.

This is the kind of thing that really highlights how much of a joke any attempt at church unity is. So long as any denomination says their interpretation is the only right one, and considers themselves the absolute guardians of truth, there can be no compromise. I don't just mean the RC and Orthodox churches, there are plenty of protestant denominations who are equally dogmatic that they are the only ones getting it right and everyone else simply has to change to do it their way.

It's not about obeying rules though. How can you receive communion in a RC church if you don't believe in transubstantiation? If you think communion is purely symbolic then that's fine but why is it such a problem not to receive it in a RC church where it is regarded as the actual body and blood of Christ. I have part read a excellent book called Catholicism for Dummies and the explanation given for this is far more eloquently put than I have done. For the record I am currently c of e but attend mass every Sunday and am preparing my daughters for their first holy communion and confirmation. I have never received communion yet but I don't feel harshly treated, in fact I am treated in all other respects as a member of the parish. I think it very unfair to call someone a bigot purely because of this issue not to mention it is hardly christian like in itself. While I don't believe Jesus would condemn someone for taking communion against the rules of the church I don't think he would be particularly pleased if the sole reason for taking it in a RC church was to be antagonistic either. That said I do think people need to be careful and sure of their facts before accusing people of faking certificates and falsely taking communion. There may be other factors the op is unaware of.

Oh I have zero wish to take communion in an RC church. I just find the insistence on any set of rules hard to reconcile with what I think Jesus taught was important about faith, which was about love and grace and relationship. Anything which makes a separation between denominations is a problem for the church as a whole, and if none of us is prepared to take a broader view then the divisions just keep getting wider and deeper.

I suspect the difficulty here is that Pentecostal families have chosen to send their children to the RC church to get a school that takes Christianity seriously, and then have to work around the rules when issues like first communion come up, since not putting their children in for it would seem odd.

But I don't think the 'wrong' of taking communion in those circumstances, when the children are from committed Christian families is such a big deal. If the bread and wine are more 'real' body and blood than they have been taught on Sundays, that's not going to harm them or the church.

Peace to you too francis, referring back to Corintians to support exclusion isn't Christian though. Roman Catholicism is a Christian religion, one of them.

The idea that a God would turn away Catholics or turn away Protestants at the communion rail is surely so far away from any Christian way that it needs to be challenged. God himself didn't sign off on excluding people from Communion you know! It's a notion man has taken along the way.

eXACTLY muminscotland you have put it very well.

Surely Transubstantiation occurs by faith?

If a person imbibes the (actual) blood and body of Christ, and is unaffected by it, I can see the danger.

If Communion is done through Remembrance, does not the act of remembering Christ, involve internalizing Him? Having Christ at the centre of your being? (Being in Christ and Christ being in you). Again if someone is unaffected in remembering Him I can see the danger.

Where I am uncomfortable, is where Holy Communion is seemed to valued mostly in terms of the 'correctly performed' ritual justifying a person, rather than what is going on inside their hearts.

"M81, a spiral galaxy similar to our own Milky Way, is one of the brightest galaxies that can be seen from Earth. The spiral arms wind all the way down into the nucleus and are made up of young, bluish, hot stars formed in the past few million years, while the central bulge contains older, redder stars."

And the god who you think is responsible for all that won't listen to you unless you have the right paperwork.

While God is pure spirit we are not, the church acknowledges this and therefore just like anything else on modern day planet earth we function with and through material. Catholicism is not anti-matter but very sacramental. You can't leave the country without the right paperwork don't forget. God came to us in our matter - that is what the incarnation is all about. Prayer and paperwork are different things and both have their place. In other words God will listen to you with or without paperwork. As he stated so clearly "render to Caesar what belongs to Caesar and to God what belongs to God" Matthew 22:21

Jesus is comfortable with paperwork, he read the scrolls in the synagogue (Ok maybe they were parchment).

Is not faith, in what Christ did for us the most important thing though, not faith in the ritual of Sacraments? Because without faith in Christ, partaking of Sacraments cannot be evidence of Grace.

In I Corinthians Paul talks of bad behaviour at The Lord's Supper, which is dangerous because it suggests the Sacrament is not having a meaningful effect on those particular people, rendering it meaningless for them.

Whether through their faith Transubstantiation takes place or whether Communion is through their faith in remembering Christ's work, the point is this should affect the partakers on a very deep level, so that they become more Christ like, resulting in Christ being in them.

This thread began with basic questions on FHC. Answering questions on the activity of receiving communion does not discount or preclude anything to do with faith or grace. Communion is the "summit and source" of our faith and that's why it is the heart of every Mass, together with the scriptures. Catholics believe that the Word of God is Christ himself whether experienced through the proclaimed scriptures or the experience of receiving him in the Eucharist.

I have not given a dense theological or spiritual explanation of Communion as initially that was not what was being discussed.

Of course we absolutely believe that Holy Communion changes us and if living a life cooperating with his grace, reception makes us more and more like Christ. However, we also believe that even if we are feeling as spiritually dry as a bone and experience nothing particularly emotionally or apparently spiritually rewarding at Mass Holy Communion is just as effective - as it not due to us but purely Gods grace and initiative.

My earlier quote from Corinthians applies to us all - are we prepared to meet Christ when we approach the altar, have we been cooperating with his grace? Can we say "My Lord and my God"? Because it is not due to our faith but his grace, it is possible to still receive God without acknowledging Him. If an atheist received Holy Communion she or he would still receive Christ despite having no faith. Because Jesus is really and truly present.

I think we have a different understanding of sacraments capsium as you seem to consider them purely ritualistic while we believe we encounter God. And that encounter will happen whether we believe or not. I appreciate your very considered and thoughtful comments.

the always hilarious waterford whisper

I was not brought up in the Roman Catholic Church Francis, though my mother was but is lapsed in terms of church attendance etc.

I do believe the Sacraments are more than just ritual, that you can encounter God through them, but by this (as I understand it) is through faith in Christ. My understanding of these passages:

Romans 5:2 "through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we boast in the hope of the glory of God."

Ephesians 2:8 "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—",

is why I believe this. That is you receive grace through faith - this grace being available to all, but actually received / taken up through faith.

i think we are saying the same thing capsium. The quote from Ephesians echoes what I just said, that it is all through grace, through God's initiative "this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God". God's grace saves us, that is what we believe.

Because when an encounter goes completely unnoticed and unacknowledged, what effect does it have?

People encounter God everywhere, but not everyone will acknowledge Him.

Sorry X post.

I do find the language of the Roman Catholic Church confusing sometimes, something that is probably due to me not been brought up Catholic.

My point was that I understand faith (which is God given), is necessary to be able to receive grace. Where you said an atheist could receive Christ, without faith in Him, confused me.

Or do you mean Holy Communion is dangerous, because if a person will not receive the grace, we can receive through faith in what Christ did for us, receiving Christ (without receiving His grace) means we will find His light condemns us?

^dangerous to non believers, that is.

Yes, I think different Christian traditions can use different language when talking about the same things, or experiences of God. God's grace always has an effect whether we realise it or not. In Catholic language we might describe this as "consolations". When we pray we sometimes have intense experiences of God's love, peace and power. At other times we may not have these experiences but I am sure you would agree that this prayer is just as effective - because it is not reliant on how we feel. In fact it is a sign of Christian maturity to pray and believe at all times, and in all circumstances.

Christ is present in his church and in the sacraments of the church even if someone present does not believe - "By his power he is present in the sacraments so that when anybody baptises, it is really Christ himself who baptises. He is present in his word since it is he himself who speaks when the holy scriptures are read in Church. Lastly, he is present when the Church prays and sings, for he has promised where two or three are gathered together in my name there I am in the midst of them" Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) 1088

capsium sorry I took a while and missed your last two posts so my "Yes" is not to say it is dangerous!

I'm sorry I don't really understand your last post. Could you try and rephrase it? Thank you.