We're always being told we should respect other people's beliefs, but....

[Hakluyt]

.....what exactly does "respect" mean in this context? I am an atheist, and I am always happy to be challenged on my lack of belief, and am frequently told that I must have no moral compass and that I have to put up and shut up when Christianity imposes itself on me. I have also been told that I must have no sense of wonder- and, on on particularly memorable occasion, that I couldn't possibly have any charitable impulses!

But if I say anything even remotely "challenging" about faith or people of faith,bi am accused of disrespect. So, what exactly does respecting other people's beliefs mean?

"I didn't realise atheists could belief in the existence of eternality."

Really? Infinity is quite a scientific concept.

frustratedbaker

What arrogant person led you to think that you know the beliefs of all atheists, and that they are all the same?

Something is eternal or something had to start. If something started, it came from nothing. Not a speck, not a piece of energy, nothing at all, no consciousness, not even a space for there to be 'something' in. If you want to believe that something arose out of that - well, that's very nice. It's a belief.

So atheists would believe in an infinite being, or infinite matter, infinite energy? What are the theories?

They are all the same. You have a belief in something infinite, or believe that something came from nothing. There is that choice, and that choice alone. It's not arrogance. It's the way it is.

"There are large parts of the world where life is very brutal and morality and empathy a bit thin on the ground"

That's not actually true.

Do you remember quoting me first, and then saying this?! Keep up!

(It is actually true).

If you say god always existed and never started then why can't you just say that about the universe? I don't reject religious claims because of the strength of the start of the universe theories, it's because there is no evidence for the gods themselves. To be honest I just don't have a clue how the universe started, but have no reason to think it's a thing that has any interest in us.

"There are large parts of the world where life is very brutal and morality and empathy a bit thin on the ground"

And these are religious parts of the world, right?

You can just say that about the universe - you can believe whatever you want. That's the whole point.

PigletJohn, can you just point me to the parts of the world that are devoid of all religion, and I'll let you know.

Atheists would believe...nothing. They are just unconvinced with the claims religion makes. I can't say there isn't a god, I just have no reason to think there is at this time.

It's true :) I have seen it. I know that you haven't. But we all speak as we find.

No, I'm not arrogant. Can you point me to the third alternative between something that is eternal, and something that started.

Headinhands, you are an agnostic?

No my point is, if you believe in a god because you can't imagine how the universe got here, then how do you think god came about? And if he just always was with no creator then why not just use that looped logic on the universe?

I dunno, I just can't say I know there is no god, it would be dishonest of me to say that. I can say that I'm almost certain the god of the bible is man made.

But I'm not pretending not to have a belief, headinhands. I readily accept it's a belief, for religious people. Whereas atheists don't like it being described as a belief. But the fact is, they either believe in eternality, or they believe that 0 + 0 = 1.

• No, it means that if you believe whatever you want, then there's your belief system. One of many atheist belief systems, or theories, according to you. It doesn't blow my theory out of the water, it proves it.

'I suspect many atheists don't give much thought to the origins of the universe'

I think so too. But it does mean they're easily disabused of the idea that their 'facts' are little more that an alternative belief system.

Dorrit, what does it say? Does it say there's a third alternative between eternality and 1+1=0?

""There are large parts of the world where life is very brutal and morality and empathy a bit thin on the ground""

For example

Mother and Baby Home (Religious)

Austalia, Canada, Ireland, UK US (Religious)

Schools and Orphanages (Religious)

School Fire (Religious)