We're always being told we should respect other people's beliefs, but....

[Hakluyt]

.....what exactly does "respect" mean in this context? I am an atheist, and I am always happy to be challenged on my lack of belief, and am frequently told that I must have no moral compass and that I have to put up and shut up when Christianity imposes itself on me. I have also been told that I must have no sense of wonder- and, on on particularly memorable occasion, that I couldn't possibly have any charitable impulses!

But if I say anything even remotely "challenging" about faith or people of faith,bi am accused of disrespect. So, what exactly does respecting other people's beliefs mean?

Yes PiratePanda, I am well aware of that.

BackOnlyBriefly:
The Middle East point is nonsense because they all had access to a belief in God of the bible long before Mohammad cooked up his Islamic religion based on an adaptation of the existing bible.

People over time have chosen to move away from God and follow their idols. That's not a new human problem!

ARainyDay are you now admitting that the 'atheist laws' of which you spoke were the ones promising equality for all? I can see why those upset religious people.

I have never, ever been verbally abused for my faith by anyone other than atheists. Well you'd hardly get Christians telling you that god doesn't exist would you. Go for a walk in Tower Hamlets and tell people there that Christianity is the one true religion and see how that goes.

Most atheists are also secularists which means they support laws protecting you from other religions and if we can make these equailty laws apply to everyone that will also help protect you from abuse. I'm afraid if we carry on saying "doesn't count for religious people' then you may be in trouble when the majority of religious people are Muslim.

Oh and I forgot to say to ARainyDay that the bible begins with a lie.
But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

Amusingly some Christians have tried to say that he meant "eventually" :) but that would still be deception. I'm sure that lawyers who trick people with misleading statements are still hated by god right?

ARainyDay- could you tell me what an atheist law is, please?

BackOnlyBriefly,

You're right, the dying process started from that moment yes. Along with thorns on the stony ground etc

I'm not sure what you're trying to mis quote me in relation to equality?

:-D about the spaghetti monster, though I think he was in Australia. I don't recall how they knew I was "religious" - I may have mentioned I went to church or something. I've never been the proselytising kind. Anyway, it was a long time ago. Mainly I remember how I felt to be on the receiving end of something like that. But maybe also some of them had been bullied or disapproved of by religious people in their past, too, and we're merely acting out.

I see that Rainy does not respect other people's beliefs.

were. Hate autocorrect!

Hakluyt:

The people complaining that Christians influence law in such a way as to ruin everything for everyone else (their alternative atheist viewpoint of law) would be best served to answer that question for you.

Oh wait, you are one such person making that complaint. Don't you understand your own complaint then?

Why do you say that, pigletJohn? Is it just because you don't like what I'm saying and it makes you feel uncomfortable? Sometimes the truth hurts and I make no apology for that.

But if you really think I have no respect do feel free to tell me what your evidence is of such an accusation.

I say that because I have just read your comments on people who have a religion which differs from your own.

However, it's hard to be a false witness without lying isn't it

You are kidding right? This isn't important in itself, but demonstrates the muddy thinking.

We made owning a dangerous dog illegal, but that didn't make owning dogs illegal even though to own a dangerous dog one must own a dog.

PigletJohn:

It is true that Mohammad made up his own religion based largely on the pre-existing bible. He disappeared up a mountain and had visions and all sorts! Google it if you don't believe me.

The people complaining that Christians influence law in such a way as to ruin everything for everyone else

That's what I was referring to. Atheists complain that religious people block equality laws. You refer to those laws as atheist laws.

BackOnlyBriefly:

Are you trying to make us all believe you can bear false witness without lying?

What laws specifically?

Rainy demonstrates again that she does not respect other people's beliefs.

Obviously she therefore has no right to expect other people to respect hers.

"The people complaining that Christians influence law in such a way as to ruin everything for everyone else (their alternative atheist viewpoint of law) would be best served to answer that question for you. "

Right.

I haven't actually said that- I don't think anyone else has either. What I am saying is that in the House of Lords there are a group of Christians who are there solely because of their faith. And therefore the Christian viewpoint has,uniquely, an automatic say in legislation. Obviously if Christians want to form a political party and loads of people vote for them, the Christians will have a democratic mandate to do things their way. It's the unelected nature of the current involvement that is the issue.

Mohammad made up his own religion based largely on the pre-existing bible.

Of course he did - just like Jesus and Joseph Smith. It's the most common method because you have a ready made congregation if you can pull it off and you can say "Established 5,000 years BC"

Right after you say you are the continuation of the previous religion you say that the old rules will now change as they are outdated, misunderstood etc.

Oh typically you say "oh and everyone gets lots of free women".

Credit to Jesus (if he existed) that he didn't go that way.

pigletJohn:

You can just keep repeating your allegations or you can be a bit less vague and specific about what's troubling you.

Unless it is just you throwing your toys out of the pram because you don't like hearing a viewpoint different to your own?

*Are you trying to make us all believe you can bear false witness without lying?

No, I'm simply demonstrating that trying to fit a belief in god/s into the real world can cause you to get muddled.

BackOnlyBriefly:

The changing of the rules is null and void after the last book of the bible was penned because it comes with it a serious warning about doing so.

That's wonderful! :)

So it was ok for jesus to say that what god had said was moral was now immoral, but no one can do that in future because that's no longer allowed?

Oh and I'd have to check as I haven't memorised the whole thing, but I'm pretty certain it says that in the old testament. If I'm right then Christianity is the work of Satan yes?

No, I said it was the LAST book penned, not the OT!

Also Jesus didn't say God was immoral.

Jesus didn't say God was immoral.

Ask most Christian about the OT and the atrocities, slavery, the homophobia and so on and they will tell you that Jesus changed all that. They will have different lists of things that have changed and which remain in force, but they will say that what was ok before is not ok now.

Wasn't Deuteronomy written before the gospels then ? There's probably lots of examples of this, but this will do.

Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you. (Deuteronomy 4:2)