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We're always being told we should respect other people's beliefs, but....

1000 replies

Hakluyt · 03/10/2014 15:17

.....what exactly does "respect" mean in this context? I am an atheist, and I am always happy to be challenged on my lack of belief, and am frequently told that I must have no moral compass and that I have to put up and shut up when Christianity imposes itself on me. I have also been told that I must have no sense of wonder- and, on on particularly memorable occasion, that I couldn't possibly have any charitable impulses!

But if I say anything even remotely "challenging" about faith or people of faith,bi am accused of disrespect. So, what exactly does respecting other people's beliefs mean?

OP posts:
BackOnlyBriefly · 12/10/2014 14:22

have you done so using an atheist apologetics website to warp shape your viewpoint?

Actually I tried something novel. I read the actual words What's more when I first began my study the internet had not been invented and nor had personal computers.

I gave you a few examples out of 1000s. You can read the book yourself if you doubt that they are there.

It's 'old and boring' because it's true and because Christians don't like people knowing about it. It's really bad for business.

So you are supporting saying there's nothing wrong with mauling young men if they say something you don't like. You prove my point regardless of how serious the injuries were. If you pushed a young man (or child) into the bear enclosure at the zoo you would defend it as "something that Jesus would do" right? Remember to mention that if asked to babysit.

You say that people can survive bear attacks because you know how awful that sounds and because you can't defend it in any straightforward way. In fact they can survive, but you don't know that until afterwards so it would be called attempted murder by today's laws.
Of course they don't normally attack humans in packs in real life. The guy who wrote that part of the bible was indulging in wishful thinking. It's what he wanted to happen.

Banging on about special privileges is hypocritical don't you think?

I'm saying you should have to obey the law even if god whispers in your ear that maiming some people is a good idea or cutting some bits off of some children.

The special privileges are the ones enjoyed by the members of religious cults. All we want is equality under the law.

You should be aware of the special right for bishops to sit in the house of lords to help pass Christian biased laws. That's in addition to any that might just happen to be Christian in case you misunderstand the situation.

You must surely be aware of the demands of the churches for the right to discriminate. We pass laws about equality and the churches say "no! we don't want to treat all people decently"

BigDorrit · 12/10/2014 14:25

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ARainyDay · 12/10/2014 14:25

Found this online, I'm afraid I don't know the author's name.

The Atheist

Methinks He Doth Protest Too Much
How Can You Hate What You Can’t Touch?
How Can You Hate What You Can’t See?
And Hate Some One You Say Can’t Be?

If There Is Nothing Really There
Why Do You Fight? Why Do You Care?
If You Say God Does Not Exist
You Should Just Let it Be Dismissed.

But You Fight on in Your Defense
Against ‘No One’ ... Does That Make Sense?
If You Found out That God Is Breath
Would You Cease Breathing till Your Death?

So, if You Say You Really Know
Stop Fighting ‘Nothing’ . . .Let it Go.
But, after Your Last Steps Are Trod
You Then Find out ‘There Is a God’
If He Says this, What Will You Do?
“Depart from Me . . I Don’t Know You.”

You’ll Go Where Godless Go Instead
Among Eternal Living Dead
You’ll Go Where All God’s Haters Go
Because You’re Sure You Really Know.

So Make Sure That You Have No Doubt
That There’s No God . . . Yes Check it out
for When You Die, It’s Just Too Late
Deception Now Has Sealed Your Fate
Before You Lock and Bolt the Door
Make Sure That You Are Really Sure.

The Writer Ends Now Thinking this
You Know Deep down He Does Exist
But You Want to Live Life Your Way
We’ll All Find out the Truth . . . Someday.

BigDorrit · 12/10/2014 14:29

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ARainyDay · 12/10/2014 14:33

BackOnlyBriefly:
Of course I would not dream of taking the law into my own hands like you suggest. Also you claim to have read the bible a long time ago, perhaps your memory is a bit shady. You said "because Jesus did it!" But He didn't. Neither did Elisha.

I would suggest atheists don't want equality, they want Christians to be silenced. When it comes to our government you can't have two opposites in place, you have to choose one or the other. It's hypocritical because you want to see Christians silenced and your world view favoured. You want atheist based laws in and bible based laws out. And no, before you leap all over that comment, I am talking about NEW TESTAMENT grace dispensation not OT.

BigDorrit · 12/10/2014 14:35

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combust22 · 12/10/2014 14:36

How patronising. Typical of the self righteous attitude of many christians.

combust22 · 12/10/2014 14:37

My last comment was directed to Arainyday.

combust22 · 12/10/2014 14:38

"Your lack of basic comprehension is astounding.

We're not angry at a god, because one doesn't exist.

We are angry at people who use the worship of one to denigrate and discriminate against others and to claim special privileges in everyday life."

Exactly.

BigDorrit · 12/10/2014 14:38

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ARainyDay · 12/10/2014 14:40

I could just as easily say how patronising, typical of the self righteous attitude of atheists.

It doesn't matter why someone holds the view on law that they do, the fact is there will always be an awful lot of people who don't see it the same as you, BigDorrit. If you throw all your toys out of the pram about it then it's obvious you're just trying to silence an opinion you don't like!

combust22 · 12/10/2014 14:40

"It's hypocritical because you want to see Christians silenced and your world view favoured. You want atheist based laws in and bible based laws out."

It's not about either/or.

Atheism is a default position. One of no god. Your argument would hold strength if we were talking Islam vs Christianity. But it doesn't.

We are all born godless. Atheism is in part about having a clean slate in faith terms.

ARainyDay · 12/10/2014 14:42

Actually the bible says we are born with knowledge of God within us.

combust22 · 12/10/2014 14:42

"I could just as easily say how patronising, typical of the self righteous attitude of atheists."

Well you could but it wouldn't really hold water. Atheists are not the ones suggesting they hold moral superiority.

ARainyDay · 12/10/2014 14:44

Combust show my post where I said I have moral superiority?

I am a sinner just like you.

God is the one with perfect morals.

combust22 · 12/10/2014 14:44

"Actually the bible says we are born with knowledge of God within us."

Right- so it must be true then. Is everything in the bible true?

ARainyDay · 12/10/2014 14:44

One hundred percent.

combust22 · 12/10/2014 14:46

So your god is a genocidal maniac then?

combust22 · 12/10/2014 14:47

Call yourself a sinner if you like, but don't call me a sinner.

Again typical of a christian attitude, don't tar me with your sordid little christian brush.

ARainyDay · 12/10/2014 14:48

Are you saying you've never sinner Combust?

ARainyDay · 12/10/2014 14:48

Sinned

PigletJohn · 12/10/2014 14:48

"Actually the bible says we are born with knowledge of God within us"

Which of course only makes sense for someone with a belief in your particular variety of bible.

There are thousands of competing religions, they all have different beliefs, so perhaps they are all worshipping a different god. Some people have a god who approves of female priests, some have a god who forbids them. Some people have a god who forbids the eating of certain foods. Some people have a god who forbids school education for females. Some people have a god who disapproves of the use of motor-cars, but approves the use of machinery that was in use prior to 1900.

BackOnlyBriefly · 12/10/2014 14:48

perhaps your memory is a bit shady

Cross the room and pick up the bible (no the other way up) Read the words. I'm always saying that to people. If people read it there'd be a lot less religious people.

Btw I hope you have proof that the other gods don't exist. You might one day find yourself face to face with the wrong one! How embarrassing. Your face would be burning wouldn't it.. and the rest of you.

SchrodingersFerret · 12/10/2014 14:49

Depends what you mean by true, imo. I believe the OT God is presented as the OT peoples understood Him, not necessarily as He actually was. But I'm not an inerrantist, so probably don't count.

ARainyDay · 12/10/2014 14:50

BackOnlyBriefly, you're letting yourself down with silly sarcasm pretending I don't know how to hold a book!

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