Do you feel it is important to share your views on faith or atheism?

[gingerdodger]

This is a genuine question, I am not asking to promote a faith vs atheism debate as we have plenty of those.

My question is whether people feel that it is part of their faith to share those beliefs with others? How far do you take this and how do you approach it? Similarly for those who are atheist, do you feel it is important to share your opinions and in what ways do you do this?

I know some faith groups see this as absaloutely fundamental to their faith whilst others are more relaxed. I also see that those who do not believe in God(s) also often wish to share their opinions widely. It interests me to think about what this achieves in terms of sharing opinions, understanding of each other etc.

From my point of view I strive to be open about my faith, I like to listen to other's perspectives as this makes me think (providing they are listening, I tend to bow out when it starts to feel adversarial and not inquisitorial). I don't feel compelled to actively knock on doors (metaphorically or otherwise) to share my faith but rather subscribe to the view that I hope my approach to life and openness about faith allows me to discuss my faith openly and honestly. I do believe actions speak louder than words and the best form of 'preaching' is to live Christian values of love (not saying I am good at this).

Add 5 minutes to the lunch break.

You have not explained its value at any point. You have said you think it is valuable. A big difference.

"Beacuse apart from the ollective worship my kid's school was excellent. A fantastic stance of bullying, had a number of children with special needs, the head made a big effort to be as inclusive as possible to make sure those children were an important part of the school community to such an extent that all the pupils were fiercely protective and supportive of the children that needed additional help."

to me, all of the above seems to be of a piece. the parts that come after "apart from collective worship...." seem to me, to be likely inspired and strengthened - in this case* - by the collective worship.

There are many people who do not think about christianity as young adults for years on end, and then suddenly see all sorts of advantages to educating their children in faith schools (I know this is not about faith schools, but it is interesting that faith schools suddenly look so good to people who are not interested in religion as opposed to those who are anti- it). I think it is interesting to ask why people as a group who don't think they need religion themselves, think it is healthy for children. they probably think of things like good behaviour, respect, positive attitude to learning, academic achievement to the best of their ability. How can atheists, or agnostics, or anyone, be so incredibly sure that all these good things have nothing to do with having love and respect for the sacredness of creation at the heart of your life and daily practices, ie, religion? It is like trying to be reductionist about diet - it isn't possible. There is no such thing, we now know, as a healthy ingredient, or even a healthy food - you can have a healthy diet as part of a healthy lifestyle. you can't just bung vitamin C down your neck in the morning and think that will do. Similarly, we have spiritual health, and I think it is nonsense to think we can be so clever as to say "I will take a, b, and c, but I won't have any of that religious stuff, which is outdated and we don't need it."

I don't think that organised religion is the only way to be spiritually healthy - not that I know another, I am just not arrogant enough to say "This is the only way."

*In this case. I am not saying that only religious people can be ethically robust; I am saying that this looks like one of the cases where the wellspring of strength for this robustness comes from religion

Hak yes, I talk according to my own beliefs. No one is without bias, not me or you, for that matter.

capsium, does it bother you that Hakluyt keeps calling you capsicum?

Not really, a bit amusing really. I originally meant capsicum and capsium was a typo but then I decided I liked it.

I am so sorry- I really thought it was capsicum. My brain just filled in the missing letter! I won't do it again!

No worries Hak. I expected that was what was happening. I skim read a lot too - it's why I ended up with capsium after all!

I think my previous post made it quite clear. Here it is again:

BigDorrit

Opt in is biased towards those who don't want collective worship. No action required for them. There is an assumption they are the norm not the exception.

Opt out is biased towards those who do want collective worship. No action for them. There is an assumption they are the norm and not the exception.

No collective worship in schools is biased towards those who don't see the value in worship at all. It suggests worship has no place in public places, that it is somehow potentially offensive, and should be, hidden from public view, confined to designated religious buildings.

If you don't follow, I don't really know what else to say. There is bias present in all the options. You favour one which most suits your beliefs / lack of them, the same as me. There is no neutral position.

BigDorrit In fact I personally think you are showing, possibly, a lack of self awareness, if you are, indeed, insisting your own biased position is somehow intrinsically less biased and more fair...

There is choice now, except it is the parents who make the choice on behalf of the child. This is understandable because young children cannot exactly make an informed choice, you don't know what there us to miss if you have not experienced.

I do not regret allowing my DC to take part in Collective Worship, it has been thought provoking for him and has, as far as I can tell through his reaction to it, enriched his life.

Strange logic indeed, things just get curiouser and curiouser don't they? My, we would have fun out together!

And I didn't say more biased, I inferred (or meant to) that it was equal in bias. There are always concessions to make IME when trying to have a whole community join in and do the same thing.

You just gave to find a way to be mindful and respectful to differing beliefs when coming this. Beliefs are important, they are essentially show the power of being able to imagine, they are a creative force.

^have not gave. Typo.

Considering not coming. Predictive text is the bane of my life sometimes. Although I positively love spellcheck.

You cannot force worship. If it is not heart felt it is not worship. Denying commonly valued experiences, effectively censorship, hardly denotes a liberal parent either.

Civilised?

There is bias present in all the options. You favour one which most suits your beliefs / lack of them, the same as me. There is no neutral position.

But you are equating being forced to worship by the state when you don't want to (either because Christianity is not your religion of choice or because you have none) with having to worship in your own time (of which there is lots).

I see lots of advantage in a thoughtful collective assembly and support it wholeheartedly - just not one in which my child has to praise a god he doesn't, as yet, believe in..

Do you accept that other major countries with much more religious populations than ours manage without compelling people to worship a christian god during school hours?

Do you not find it rather distasteful that children who may not believe one word of the christian message (or very little of it) have no choice but to play along or be segregated?

Its an odd way to approach your faith. In fact it has made my DS rather militant in his "I don't believe in God" which is not the way I approach religion at all at home. He really resents the fact that what he believes is unimportant to the school.

I have already said, on numerous occasions, I have do not support bullying into collective worship in any form whatsoever. If called to support another parent in ensuring opting out was done in a fair manner I most certainly would do. I have supported similar issues, that did not affect my own DC at all, and been successful.

It is really not a case of cannot be bothered, with small children. There are only so many waking hours in a day for them. Many of these are taken up with an increasing educational workload, even outside of school with school directed home learning. Added to this schools are well placed to cater worship to children's needs, there is time legally set aside in the school day for this. My own DC had even more workload, outside of school, with additionally directed activities to support his SEN.

Added to this dogmas, doctrine and cultural beliefs are a common feature of society outside of religious belief and just as much a predominant feature of our children's' lives.

Kew you are not forced to worship by the state, there is opt out...

as I said - play along or be segregated

That's the choice - worship or miss out on all the normal non-religious assembly items and sit in a classroom on your own.

Yeah that's a great choice.

Added to this schools are well placed to cater worship to children's needs no, only to cater worship to christian childrens needs.