Do you feel it is important to share your views on faith or atheism?

[gingerdodger]

This is a genuine question, I am not asking to promote a faith vs atheism debate as we have plenty of those.

My question is whether people feel that it is part of their faith to share those beliefs with others? How far do you take this and how do you approach it? Similarly for those who are atheist, do you feel it is important to share your opinions and in what ways do you do this?

I know some faith groups see this as absaloutely fundamental to their faith whilst others are more relaxed. I also see that those who do not believe in God(s) also often wish to share their opinions widely. It interests me to think about what this achieves in terms of sharing opinions, understanding of each other etc.

From my point of view I strive to be open about my faith, I like to listen to other's perspectives as this makes me think (providing they are listening, I tend to bow out when it starts to feel adversarial and not inquisitorial). I don't feel compelled to actively knock on doors (metaphorically or otherwise) to share my faith but rather subscribe to the view that I hope my approach to life and openness about faith allows me to discuss my faith openly and honestly. I do believe actions speak louder than words and the best form of 'preaching' is to live Christian values of love (not saying I am good at this).

" your child may think differently from you. People seem to have an obsession that having made up their mind their child must think the same! Odd when the majority of us don't blindly follow what our mothers want us to think!"

It's not an obsession for our children to think the same- it's the drive to have our children's minds left unfettered by religious indoctrination to allow them to have freedom of thought.

opting my child out of something

But that's entirely different. You were opting them out for genuine reason of physical/cognitive ability. You weren't opting them out of the state funded activity because you didn't believe in the deity that was being worshipped.

I know you are happy for them to have worship at school but can you not see that in principle it is unfair to use tax payers money to fund it's inclusion in the curriculum.

You can pray with your kids as much as you like outside of school but it really should have no part in school, or the doctors or the dentists or the police station or the hospital or the council office or any other state funded service.

I am delighted for my children to think differently to me. That is one of the reasons I think RE is a very important subject.

I just don't want Christian prayer to be a compulsory part of the school day in a state funded school.

I m constantly amazed by Christian people's cheerful ability to ride rough shod over other people's sensibilities. And their utter unwillingness to give up any of the privilege that historically the British political and social system gives them. Thankfully, it is being eroded- Christians are at least now expected to comply with equality and employment legislation- but it's certainly a struggle.

Seriously, could you imagine the police having to pray with you before conducting a interview, or a GP having to display the 10 commandments in their surgery. Its wholly inappropriate and the fact that impressionable children are the target speaks volumes about it's intentions.

I've often asked the supporters of faith schools on here whether they would also be in favour of faith hospitals, where people of faith could jump the waiting list. Surprisingly enough, nobody has ever addressed the issue. Oh, except a couple of times where I was told not to be silly, it wasn't eh same thing at all, but with no further comment.

I know you are happy for them to have worship at school but can you not see that in principle it is unfair to use tax payers money to fund it's inclusion in the curriculum.

Christians are tax payers too. Some people do want it / are not bothered at all about Christian worship being present in schools. I am not entirely convinced that enough people don't want worship strongly enough to do anything about it. As it stands, if a significant proportion of the school community got together and opted their children out of worship a school that did not previously do this very sensitively or inclusively with regard to those children missing out on other things would suddenly have to get their act together.

If things changed, with regard to worship in schools, I would adapt to it but I will not say I don't see the value in it, if the school community want it, because it would be dishonest of me.

Hak I've already said I believe Faith schools should be inclusive in terms of admissions. Some are non-selective in terms of parent's faith, church attendance and baptism, and I believe they should be non-selective.

But schools have a legal obligation to lead active worship. It wouldn't stop just because a few parents opted their children out of it.

It is insidious because it breeds casual acceptance of christianity. It creates a culture where the church can ride roughshod over everyone.

Would you be happy at your children praying to Allah in school and reciting the Koran?

Would you be happy at your children praying to Allah in school and reciting the Koran?

If I enrolled my child at a Muslim school, as a non Muslim, I would opt my child out of Muslim worship. If I felt this was going to single my child out because not enough other children would be opting out I would not enrol at that school. If the school community wanted worship, in whatever religious context, I would not deny them it though. I believe in religious freedom.

So would you be happy for the faith criterion to be dropped from the admissions code of all schools?

And why do you keep saying that there should be collective worship if the school community wants it? The whole point is that it is statutory. No choice. Christians get their way.

"If I felt this was going to single my child out because not enough other children would be opting out I would not enrol at that school."

Fantastic. Now you know how I feel. I am in the position you would be in-except there are no non christian schools for my children to go to!

What Hakluyt siad. I have chosen to enrol my children in a non- faith school , but they are still indoctrinated. Where is the choice in that?

So would you be happy for the faith criterion to be dropped from the admissions code of all schools?

Yes.

And why do you keep saying that there should be collective worship if the school community wants it? The whole point is that it is statutory. No choice. Christians get their way.

I say it because it clarifies what I believe with regard to worship in schools. With completely secular State schooling, any form of collective worship within schools would not be allowed, which I think erodes freedom. If a community wants to worship together I believe they should be allowed to.

Fantastic. Now you know how I feel. I am in the position you would be in-except there are no non christian schools for my children to go to!

The difference being I would accept that worship taking place if it was the religion of the community. You mentioned previously that you believe the faith of these schools does not reflect the faith of the community. So why doesn't the community get together to stop this?

christians are tax payers too

So are Hindus and Muslims and Buddhists. According to your own logic we should be having a state funded act of worship within school hours for all religions unless the parents opt then out, and that ALL the religions represented within the tax paying public should get an act of worship for their belief/deity. (There's about 4200 religions/belief systems in the world). See. It's unworkable. The only thing that's fair is no worship in school. Worship away from school from 3.30 pm to 8.45 am as much as you please but not within a date funded institution.

"You mentioned previously that you believe the faith of these schools does not reflect the faith of the community"

I don't think I have. Although in some schools it obviously doesn't.

My point is that in a state funded school there should not be a requirement to be a nominal Christian in order to take a full part in the life of the school school. And Christians holding on to their historical privilege like grim death is an unedifying sight.

head it is possible to have multi faith worship to some degree. However having worship taking place in the predominant faith of a school community with the option to opt out I believe can be more appropriate, depending on the school community.

"head it is possible to have multi faith worship to some degree. However having worship taking place in the predominant faith of a school community with the option to opt out I believe can be more appropriate, depending on the school community."

But it is a statutory requirement that it is "broadly Christian in nature". Don't you understand that?????

" However having worship taking place in the predominant faith of a school community"

Good point. And given that only 1% of the UK population attend church regularly then it makes sense for no worship in schools.

Hak I thought you had mentioned some research that stated the people where you lived were predominantly non-Christian. Never mind I could be mistaken, I just thought I read one of your posts to that effect.

I know the law, I have stated what I believe should happen. And I believe it can within the law, as it stands. If 90% of parents opt their child out of worship in a Faith school, which is non selective by faith, they would have to find a way of doing this which does not impinge in any way detrimentally on school community life. As I have said I disagree with Faith criterion for admissions.

combust national statistics on church attendance do not necessarily reflect what people want to take place in schools. Why not let the school community vote with their feet?

If people voted with their feet why don't they let their feet take them to church.

We have a nation of nominal christians many of whom are atheist or agnostic. Allowing worship in schools breeds this insidious compliance.

^for example you can get small pockets of very religious communities I would not deny them / their children worship within school.

Compliance? If MN is anything to go by, I am feeling quite non compliant in stating I value collective worship in schools...

Most people are happy or they would all withdraw their children and the odd ones out would be the ones in assembly!
If collective worship got converts the churches would be full!