Do you feel it is important to share your views on faith or atheism?

[gingerdodger]

This is a genuine question, I am not asking to promote a faith vs atheism debate as we have plenty of those.

My question is whether people feel that it is part of their faith to share those beliefs with others? How far do you take this and how do you approach it? Similarly for those who are atheist, do you feel it is important to share your opinions and in what ways do you do this?

I know some faith groups see this as absaloutely fundamental to their faith whilst others are more relaxed. I also see that those who do not believe in God(s) also often wish to share their opinions widely. It interests me to think about what this achieves in terms of sharing opinions, understanding of each other etc.

From my point of view I strive to be open about my faith, I like to listen to other's perspectives as this makes me think (providing they are listening, I tend to bow out when it starts to feel adversarial and not inquisitorial). I don't feel compelled to actively knock on doors (metaphorically or otherwise) to share my faith but rather subscribe to the view that I hope my approach to life and openness about faith allows me to discuss my faith openly and honestly. I do believe actions speak louder than words and the best form of 'preaching' is to live Christian values of love (not saying I am good at this).

Hak I think collective worship does have a place in schools, if the school community want it. If this is the case I think it is wrong to refuse them.

Children can currently opt out of collective worship, which I think they should be able to. I also think that the opt out should be handled sensitively by schools so these children do not miss out on anything and it is ensured they are also not made to feel bad for not participating. Some schools currently handle the opt out better than others.

Hak it is not up to me to justify the way the House of Lords operates. Within the church there are differing views on abortion, stem cell research and gay marriage, as there are differing views outside the church. Many from within the church support these things.

"Hak I think collective worship does have a place in schools, if the school community want it. If this is the case I think it is wrong to refuse them."

But currently there is no choice. I suppose if each school could take a referendum of parents every year on use subject....

And if you can find me a Bishop in favour of liberalising abortion, stem cell research and gay marriage I will be amazed.

Am I right when I say you are opposed to faith schools?

I am not entirely opposed to Faith schools but I think they should be inclusive.

In a few months time I will be going to cook breakfast for about 300 people in our parish. Some homeless, some old people, some lonely, some just dropping into meet friends.

It will be just me and another lady. We both are not outwardly religious - just sort of helping.

We both also ring the bells for Sunday service, weddings and some funerals. We don't go to many services. We had a bit of a chat the other day about our 'faith' and we both felt it was not important to talk about it to anyone and neither of us have 'faith' as such but feel 'faith' should be lived and demonstrated in action not in word.

Hak my DC certainly missed a few assemblies due to SEN. Where does that stand on inclusion?

Anyway, it's obvious that you are taking the usual "I'm all right Jack" line that Christians always seem to take when pressed on the privileged position their faith takes in our society, so I think I'll leave it there. Maybe it would be more Christian to give up the privilege in favour of a fairer society, but that would mean.....well, giving up a position of privilege. Which is, I agree, a very hard thing to do.

I think that is great Beta. I think you do what you are comfortable with. Although, if people are interested, I also think there is nothing wrong with talking about your Faith.

Hak if the tables were turned and collective worship in schools was abolished and a significant proportion of people rose up and said they wanted it, would you then stand up and say they should be allowed it ? Or you would you feel 'alright Jack'?

Just because I am Christian in belief, does not mean I will speak out against my conscience, in order to give up a privilege. I believe the opportunity for collective worship is a good thing.

" I believe the opportunity for collective worship is a good thing."

Why?

And if a significant majority of the parents of the school voted for collective worship I would have to go with the majority.

But the is a difference between no collective worship, which excludes nobody, and collective worship which excludes non Christians.

The abolishing of collective worship excludes those who wish to worship collectively, many people find collective worship enriching and value it.

And if enough want collective worship in schools why shouldn't they have it?

"The abolishing of collective worship excludes those who wish to worship collectively, many people find collective worship enriching and value it."

Yes. And there are loads of opportunities to do it. Just not in a state funded school.

Why does your desire for collective Christian worship trump my desire not to have it?

It doesn't. But if asked about my preferences and wishes I will declare them honestly. Do your wishes trump mine? You seem to think they are more just Hak. Christians are part of our State too, their wishes over State education matter too.

But I am not imposing my wishes on you. You are imposing yours on me.

You have lots of opportunity to pray and attend collective worship. You have 18 hours every day, and all the weekend to do that. All I am asking is that your children refrain from public prayer for 6 hours every school day. I don't see how anyone could think that unreasonable. I do not want my children to have religious instruction or to be expected to take part in Christian worship in school. I have no opportunity to do this. Explain to me why it is OK for you to impose your wishes on me.

They are not my wishes exclusively. Others want this too. And if a significant group of people want collective worship in schools why shouldn't they have it? You can opt your children out of collective worship and if the school handled the opt out badly I would have something to say on your behalf.

So we have a referendum. But you don't impose something on other people without being pretty damn sure that the majority want it. Have you got any evidence that the majority do?

And why can't the children whose parents want them to take part in Christian worship be the ones to opt out? I didn't opt my children out, as it happens, because I wanted them to take a full part in the life of their school.

So we have a referendum. But you don't impose something on other people without being pretty damn sure that the majority want it. Have you got any evidence that the majority do?

If necessary. But the reason it is there in the first place and has survived is because people have wanted it. Are you sure the majority don't?

And why can't the children whose parents want them to take part in Christian worship be the ones to opt out? I didn't opt my children out, as it happens, because I wanted them to take a full part in the life of their school.

Opt out of what? I would have words with the school if opting out of worship meant your children were missing out on other things. If all the parents opted out of worship what would happen? If you feel passionately enough maybe you should find out...

Capsicum- if Mumsnet's anything to go by, most people think that we have secular schools already.

I do wish you would explain why you think you have a right to privilege just because you're a Christian. I find it really baffling. Why do you think you have a right to a greater share of the education budget, for example?

I have told you before Hak I don't think I have a right and I believe all schools should be inclusive regardless of belief. However I do think collective worship should be allowed in schools, though, if the school community want it.

How can a faith school be inclusive?

How do you find out whether the school community wants collective worship?

Oh, and why do you think asking non Christians to say Christian prayers is a good idea?

A faith school can be inclusive with regard to admissions and they can handle children opting out of collective worship sensitively, so this is all they miss and they are not made to feel bad about this.

You can find out whether your school wants collective worship through the parent council, if they have one or you can liaise with the school governors. Or you could just approach a significant amount of other parents yourself.

I see little value in asking non Christians to say Christian prayers. It is meaningless, without any Faith. For people who are uncertain concerning their beliefs, it might have some value, if they wanted to participate, in the sense they can learn something about Christian belief.

"A faith school can be inclusive with regard to admissions"

No it can't. A faith school by definition is one that gives priority to people of a particular faith.

And I agree that if a school community on a yearly basis voted for collective worship then they should have it. But as things stand it is compulsory.

" I see little value in asking non Christians to say Christian prayers"

But that's what happens if you have compulsory Christian worship in school..........