How did you know you believed

[tempusfoogit]

I am so interested in finding out how others felt drawn to faith-I am a fence-sitter at the moment, equally drawn to and repulsed by 'Religion'. I feel spiritual feelings, often give gratitude to 'something',have an interest in religious texts and believe there is an energy which goes on after we die, but cannot bring myself to become involved in organised religion. It is a simplistic thing, but the current happenings in Israel/Palestine sicken me to the core and I have all the usual questions of how supposedly religious, empathic, loving believers can carry out such atrocities. I was brought up in an atheist household and would love to hear from anyone who found themselves believing after such a childhood-was it a blinding flash, a gentle realisation or something else? Thank you so much if you have time/inclination to answer

i was brought up to be muslim but from a very early age i knew i wasn't. i was always drawn towards the spiritual side of life, sensing the connection between mother earth and its inhabitants. i have always rebelled against organised religion and its rituals that 'require' people to follow them or you're 'not part of the club'. i started researching other religions including wicca and paganism and took something from each that resonated with how i felt and saw life. i am a spiritual being, i don't feel the need to label myself but for the sake of simplicity and when form filling i use the term Spiritualist.

the way i see it there is one divine energy source from which all of creation stems and the conscious awareness of that energy source and the reasons for life - esp on earth - is manifested through all the different religions and spiritual teachings. as human beings we are not perfect and over time our ego has twisted the truth into something that now creates separation amongst us instead of bringing us together. LOVE is our creators message and intent, not division and hate because of our differences as individuals.

Hi Twizzle! That's an interesting take and resonates a lot with how I feel, especially the primary message being one of love. It is so difficult to reconcile all that is done in the name of 'Religion' with the basic tenets that lie at the root of all religions. I suppose one of my main concerns is the thought of going to 'hell' due to not formalising my religious view, not proclaiming God to be my saviour. I feel I live a good, industrious and empathic life and try always to treat others as I would like to be treated but it seems so unkind that it may still result in my eternal burning because I feel unable at this point in my life to positively say I do believe...

OP religion is man-made. Like fashion and architecture, the texture and appearance may have changed through millennia but the function is a constant. I take enormous comfort in my Christian practise but my belief is tempered by reality - Christianity is a very narrow view if the world, and I cannot believe it has all the answers, but I find peace in the reflective meditative practises enshrined within its practise. FWIW your fear of a "hell" is very much a fear of a construct developed by men of power to subdue the masses. You don't have to have all the answers now, just live your life with integrity and love for yourself and others and you will find that the doors will start opening for you to find your own path to peace and joy. Namaste.

Hell is this world with it's hate and conflict,there is no 'hell' on the otherside. we are all products of our upbringing,cultures,societies,education (or lack of) and our egos. some of us have awakened to how those with power and knowledge have used that to brainwash us and enslaved us as people. some people have not wakened and believe their truth as strongly as we believe ours. i believe that lifer on the other side is about reviewing what you did in this life and then continual learning via reincarnation to progress our spiritual growth. god does not judge us - WE judge ourselves. a creator with unconditional love for us would never 'punish' us once we've come back home after living in this world.

I don't know what I believe and I worry that I'm doing it wrong.

I find it helpful to pray, but don't like to ask for too much help, as I don't think I deserve it. I try to punish myself for things I've done wrong, to try and stop myself from being punished by a "higher being" and then worry I'm being a martyr.

I try hard to learn from my mistakes, but never feel I'm getting any better. There always seem to be more things I could try and improve.

And sometimes (quite often) I fall asleep while I'm praying; is that disrespectful? Or if the only time I have on my own to pray is in the loo, is that wrong?

I wish I had a clear faith. Or a clear lack of faith. Maybe if I had one or the other, I would be happy?

Try watching the Hour of Power (Sky Atlantic, Sunday morning 6am- I record). Pastor Bobby Schuller often interviews guests about their experience of faith. I also find his sermons really good.

Thanks all! I suppose I find the idea of 'hell' as a human construct confusing. Why would a loving and forgiving God discount all your goodness in this life and send you to hell just because you did not have faith in him? Alikat, I too like some of the Christian practices and ideas , also Jewish, Muslim etc they underpin how I live my life but without me having 'faith'.

alikat- that is a very refreshing view, and I am surprised to hear that you are a christian.
I too feel a great spiritual connection to the world and to humanity, I take time to reflect but I consider myself an atheist. I am not comfortable with the idea of having a power- or indeed a church controlling me.

A bit like SaulPaul in the story in the Bible in Acts I encountered Jesus and decided that it would be rude not to find out more. I had been to Sunday School as a child but decided in my teens when the awkward stage kicked in that I was having nothing to do with God so I walked away. When I started to think about going back, mostly for the music as it happens I was a bit ambushed. That experience has kept me going through times when God seemed distant and faith was tough. Not so much belief but varying degrees of doubt really.

So now I work for the church as I figured it was better to get involved and change from within rather than carp from the outside. It is difficult at times especially when I'm faced with other peoples projections and expectations of what a Christian should be or do.

As someone in church leadership the idea that I control anyone is a bit odd. I can suggest that they pay attention to our Lord's message of compassion for the poor but I can't force them to give to the foodbank, or be street pastors, listen to the lonely and lost or knit blankets for the women's refuge. Oddly enough they do because they are lovely.

I challenged God, aged about 15, and he sent me a sign.

How interesting cheapskate, do you feel able to explain further? What was the challenge and how did you recognise the sign as being from God? I have had a few things which could be interpreted as 'signs ' but I think my brain has always interpreted them as coincidence

lets people go when they have hardened themselves

That seems reasonable. Personally speaking no one has to tell me to clear off twice. Pray tell, what's so bad about someone not being interested in god? I mean, I can't see any difference in the people I know who do and don't believe in god, some nice, some numpties.

no other explanation good enough to satisfy

And yet, for me, choosing an explanation based on how satisfying I found it would be, well, unsatisfactory. It reminds me of the time I heard a sermon about how Christianity was too good to not be true. Undoubtedly I sat there nodding along and it took me about 20 years to think 'wait a minute', you could say that about anything you made up.

What if I quit my job and told my ex boss it was because I was going to win the lottery next week. And he asked me how I knew. And I said it was too good to not be true. It just makes no sense!!!

Many of us don't talk much about our relationship with God, including me. Perhaps we should do so more often? Although it often strikes me that the people who waffle on most loudly about their religion are the ones who are most likely using it as justification for their own bad behaviour.

I was brought up in the standard English middle class 'officially CofE' way, but I heard God's voice when I was 15 - my father was very ill. He told me He loved us and that everything would be alright, and indeed it was. I wibbled badly when I was 19 and did things I now regret, but sorted myself out and by the age of 25 had got myself back on track.

When I was 34 I was once again at a crossroads. My father had finally died, although we'd been granted an extra nineteen years of him. My personal life was a mess and I was effectively a single parent to tiny twin girls. Then I heard God's voice again, just as I'd heard it before. The message of love and reassurance warmed me right through and gave me the strength to carry on, to mend the fences with my children's father and to cope with the loss of my own daddy.

That was 13 years ago, I haven't heard His voice again, but I don't think I've needed to. I have felt His presence a few times, a bit like a gentle arms round the shoulders. There have been some dark times, such as when my brother died aged just 38, but His love has carried me.

if you commit one sin then you've committed them all

And how is that in any way fair? I find that construct deeply deeply immoral. Imagine a judge sent you to prison for life for not having a TV license saying that as far as he's concerned if you've committed one crime you've committed them all. It would rightly make no sense. People should be accountable for what they have done and nothing else. Punishing people for things you know they haven't done is morally reprehensible.

And as for the woman being stoned. How about he said what the hell are you doing, how barbaric are you, you're about to kill a woman just for having sex with someone, you can't kill people for that. It's immoral. She should be allowed to have sex with whoever consenting adult she wants without running the risk of having rocks thrown at her head.. And by his own reasoning Jesus thinks he had every right to throw the first stone at that woman's head. Whereas I beg to differ. I'm not going to worship a god who thinks he has the moral right to throw rocks at a woman's head for having sex with another consenting adult. That's deeply unpalatable.

But not everyone who commits a crime gets sent to prison. And if they do the sentence varies according to the severity of the crime. So your analogy doesn't fit. With god there is no variance. He either says 'go to hell' or 'welcome to my paradise (just because you worshipped me)'. Both immoral.

"love me or else"

Sounds like an abuser.

God is reaching out to you most definitely.
God has come knocking.

Seek and ye shall find.
Carry on seeking.

The best advice I can give to you is to read the bible. Try the New Revised Standard Version.

And by his own reasoning Jesus thinks he had every right to throw the first stone at that woman's head

Why didn't he then? Why did he lead her away from her death and send her out to a better life?

Jesus' actions in that instance were radical in the extreme. He was going against the 'law' and showing a better way, a way of compassion and understanding, a way of love. Jesus showed God's heart for that woman, a woman hated and scorned - a heart full of compassion and a heart that gave her hope and a future.