Trusting clergy CofE

[Rinoachicken]

Trying to find a new church having moved house recently. But I'm finding it hard and I think it's because of how I left my previous church.

I had been going through a very difficult time and my vicar offered to see me weekly for art therapy as this was his previous job and I've found it helpful before. So we had a period of time, 6 months or more of an intense therapeutic communication, I shared very personal things etc. anyway, I ended up in hospital for a while and he went on a month long mission in Africa.

While he was away there was a domestic incident with my husband. When I told my vicar when he got back he offered to counsel my husband and barely spoke to me. I got the impression he didn't believe me and it was only when my husband admitted to him what he'd done that my vicar started speaking to me again.

Now we had already moved house by this time, but we are not that far away so kept going to the church. Had couples therapy with my husband and got our marriage back on track. Became pregnant and it was a difficult pregnancy meaning I was housebound through most of it.

I asked if communion could be administered to me at home. Vicar said of course.

Never visited, no communion, no communication from him for nearly a year now.

My son was born in December and we've never been back to the church and are now trying to find a new one.

But I feel like my trust in clergy has been damaged. I feel let down by my last vicar, who initially offered so much support and then just cut me off completely. I don't know if I'm being unreasonable or not but it's how I'm feeling. Hurt and let down.

And I think it's affecting me finding a new church which I am so desperate to do. I feel like I need to keep a distance, not reveal anything.

Sorry that it's long.

Hi Rinoachicken I am so sorry you have had this difficult situation.

If I can make a comment on the situation, knowing only what you have written here, then I must say my own personal feeling is the relationship with the previous minister was too intense and for that reason was not really sustainable. It would be very hard for any minister to dedicate so much time to one person or couple in a church and so inevitably (IMHO), eventually, due to his commitments and your ill health through pregnancy, things did not continue. It was wrong of him (IMHO) to 'cut you off' in this way, he should have arranged for communion etc to be brought to you and if not by him by someone else.

In my very humble opinion he over committed to you and your family and perhaps in some way he was a bit too involved and this led to him feeling unable to continue.

I think you should not assume that this will be the case in all churches and of course ideally (in time) it would be great if you could feel able to share appropriately with people at the church.

It does sound like you have been through a lot lately and I feel you would benefit from the warmth and fellowship of a small group, such as a weekly home group/ house group/ladies group etc. If I were in your shoes I would want to find a church with small fellowship groups and/or a ministry team so you would not be getting your support from one person.

Also, it is my own opinion that it can make life easier to share with someone of the same sex generally, because that way there is less chance for complicating feelings. I am not in any way suggesting this was the case for your vicar but just in general it can make life easier if you are getting support from another woman or as a couple from another couple. When my DH and I have had some Christian prayer ministry we saw another Christian couple, which felt even and helpful.

Please do not let your trust in all clergy be damaged by this one experience, clergy are only human and I feel this minister over committed himself and that is both a very human and a very 'clergy' thing to do. You may need to pray to forgive him before you can move on, this is for your benefit and not necessarily for his, he does not even need to know you have forgiven him, but I would pray about this as I think you may need to do this before you can move on. Bless you.

I'm not surprised you feel that way. You have been let down, and it is OK to feel hurt and bewildered by this vicar who promised so much and gave so little. I'm so sad for you that you had this experience. Sometimes life seems to just happen, things drag on, people don't get it right. This vicar may be particularly forgetful or embarassed or rubbish or a lot of other things, but in the end, he has hurt you, and that is wrong.

I can't say much to reassure you, except to say I know many, many members of the clergy and would trust a good number of them with my life. I know that's subjective, but if it can give a different picture...I hope it can help you have a think about looking around again. I am married to one, so may be a little biased - but it doesn't detract from the fact that most, I think, would be keen to help and to listen and to support.

Maybe you could have a look round for a church in a low key way. You don't have to go straight in and tell everything, you could build up trust slowly - after all, they need to earn trust.

This 'art therapy', was it only you and the vicar, if you don't mind me asking? It sounds perhaps almost too intense, and perhaps something was off balance, and he withdrew knowing it was so? (not from your side, but from his?) - just a thought.

I hope things are OK with you and your dh now?

• cross posted with italian - it looks like we had similar thoughts!

Hi, thanks so much for replying.

Yes the art therapy was just the two of us. With the benefit of hindsight I think it was maybe not the best thing for him to have offered, since it was a massive commitment that there was no way he would be able to keep up. I do feel like it was a failure on his part to not be able to forsee that, I was too I'll at the time.

I luckily now have the support of the community mental health team and a very good key worker so I'm not in that position of needing someone as I was. My key worker things he was 'misguided', in that he wanted to help but then became out of his depth and didn't know what to do and handled it badly.

He is a very forgetful and haphazard sort of person naturally and I did always try to allow for this, and didn't expect him to bring me communion himself, but I do feel let down in that, in his position, and since he himself knows how forgetful he is, he should take extra care to pass on a request to the pastoral team etc, especially since it can cause such hurt. I think that blanking me and avoiding me (what it feels like anyway!) isn't the best way to go about things!

You are right I think and I do need to pray for myself to be able to forgive and move on, and be gentle with myself and take my time finding a new church

Too ill I meant!

Waves at Mad, great minds do, indeed, think alike!

Rinoachicken the desire to help and the ability to do so are two different things, as you rightly recognise. Often we really want to help someone and maybe overcommit. I hope you can move on, forgive him and find a new church. The fact you are able to critically review what happened and to think it through is very helpful.

When looking for a new church take it slow, do not commit yourself too soon. Read the website, does the church represent things about God and life in a way that is acceptable to you? Not do you agree with everything they say but are you comfortable with the church. Meet the people, are they warm and welcoming? Is it accessible (in all senses, times, distance etc etc). When you find somewhere you feel comfortable with it, take it slow. As mad says.... You don't have to go straight in and tell everything, you could build up trust slowly - after all, they need to earn trust. Too much information can over whelm people and too much confiding in people can create an artificial feeling of knowing each other etc. So go slow, make friends, you may find that in time you are someone others can also confide in and your experiences may help others. It all takes time. God bless you.

I must be honest, I don't 'trust' anybody in the church, vicar or not. People are fallible - and, in my opinion, no more so than in the church (a lot of us are damaged).

That said, he went about the whole thing badly - too much, then too little: something in the middle would have been more balanced and healthy. I think your keyworker may be right, he overstretched himself, perhaps? His problem, not yours; though of course it has become yours because he has hurt you - I'm so sorry, Rino. I'd be careful about trusting anyone in the church tbh. Find out what they're about over a long period of time and let trust grow in tiny increments, don't assume a person is altogether trustworthy - only God is entirely trustworthy.

I also agree that intense, exclusive time between two people of the opposite sex is not a good idea. Perhaps he started to get confused and made the decision to jump ship - as if you could do with that eh, you needed someone who is constant and grounded. He sounds a bit flakey tbh.

You were badly let down by a vicar.

They are all different imo. There is no way mine would have been so intense with one individual. They just wouldnt have time.

Equally though, try and see it as one individual that let you down.

It is like if we ourselves do something wrong. We dont then expect someone else to say that they are then going to have no trust and nothing to do with all women, or SAHM or whatever.

People are indeed fallible.
But vicars in particular are supposed to be less falliable that the general population.

And should be highly accountable - should, in fact, have that drummed into them. Cross on your behalf Rino.

I think a person must be deeply flawed if they want to become a vicar in the first place.

The access that Rhinoachicken had with her vicar is very unusual. Lone working policies advise against being alone if at all possible but the nature of the job means that sometimes it is unavoidable. At vicar training school they are very clear about boundaries which anyone who has worked as a counsellor or teacher or doctor will know all about. They also advised against male clergy being alone with female parishioners.

I'm sorry that you have had a bad experience Rhinoachicken

Sorry to slightly hi-jack the thread, but crescentmoon I'm interested to hear you say that. What kind of pastoral support is there from a Mosque?

Perhaps we could look at it another way.

I'm not discounting that what he did was inappropriate, because it was - intense alone time with just you and he was inappropriate. That stands in stone that he shouldn't have done that and should KNOW he shouldn't have done that.

But perhaps he was being naive. He saw the need in you and thought he could perhaps go the extra mile for you. A lone ranger. Then, when things became tricky between you and your husband and you poured out your worries to him, he panicked and tried to readdress the balance by concentrating on your husband and turning his messianic beam ( ) on him instead of on you, in order to perhaps try to water down the intimate connection you had had together.

Even so, I'm still cross on your behalf. It was a very cack-handed (therefore hurtful and potentially harmful) way to go about it. He had no business being that naive (if indeed he was?). But perhaps we should bear in mind that vicars aren't trained counsellors and don't have the same degree of counsellors' extensive, exhaustive training in which appropriate boundaries are fully explored to the nth degree, over years and years of training (yy he would have had a good portion of that training but not all iyswim). Partial and inadequate training on this can be dangerous.

He may be isolated - he has certainly acted like a lone ranger by offering you intensive individual attention. Any potential isolation could be his doing or it could be the quality of his line management (or both). I can't help thinking that his next in line should know about this - but are you up to making it known? It can be a challenging process, particularly if his next in line is crap too.

Was the Vicar a registered Art Therapist? It's a restricted profession with a professional body. No-one else should claim to be an art therapist, if memory serves, nor offer therapy if they lack the skills to do so. Just a thought. Either way, there are very good clergy and you will find others who are worth trusting.