Should we have a Philosophy element in the RE curriculum for schools?

[bigmouthstrikesagain]

I believe we should.

I am currently looking over my daughters primary school RE policy. I am a Governor so my role is not to amend or approve merely to ensure the curriculum follows the National guidelines, is up to date etc.

But reading it has set me thinking about how teaching in primary schools is generally couched in religious terms - this school is loosely CofE. I see that the policy states that the "[this school] believe that R.E. is vital in promoting the spiritual, moral, cultural and social development of pupils" I agree with the latter half of that statement but not the first two elements as I think moral and spiritual development is possible without religion. I am an atheist and was raised by atheist parents, they were moral and spiritual in the way they lived their lives but they were philosophical in the way they explained the reasons 'to be good' and this was just as valid as any religious upbringing.

I am not planning on challenging the school on this issue. But I am interested in how other people view the way we teach children about morality and spirituality.

I have to tackle issues with my children about the way we live, death and relationships and even diet (we are vegetarian). Children are naturally curious and philosophical so it is never forced and always stems from their questions. I do not use religious terminology to explain these issues and I don't say that my Dad is looking down from a cloud at them, or that we celebrate Christmas because of baby Jesus (mid winter celebration hi-jacked by the canny Christians ). They tell me about God and the stories they use in school to discuss moral behaviour are often bible stories. At home we are talking about being good to others and looking after the planet etc. without the bible being involved. I am not particularly worried about religious indoctrination I remember wanting to be a Nun as a child (mainly due to Julie Andrews) and making my Mum sigh heavily every time I prayed at the War memorial.

I would love to see the schools in this country integrate a more open philosophical approach to moral, religious and spiritual questions - it would not been replacing RE with philosophy but simply broadening and embracing different tools for understanding. What are other peoples thoughts on this? Should I have posted in Primary Education? I was unsure which topic best suited my question so maybe I shall do both...

Or perhaps a separate Philosophy element in the curriculum would be better? Still processing my thoughts on this and sorry they are so long winded

Have you heard of philosophy for children? P4C I think they call it. It's a big think in my kids school. Worth looking up if you are interested. I think its great and the kids have really benefited - its not just about philosophy in a narrow sense but developing higher level thinking and questioning skills.

Just seen your second post - so in our school p4c is a lesson in itself but also a whole school approach to other things. Like "question of the week" which is announced in assembly and the whole school discusses. Often very abstract like "what would the world be like if there was no colour red?" Sometimes a bit more tangible though.

Sorry. A big thing not a big think! Although also a big think!

Cheers Pancakes I have seen that site as it came up when I did the necessary google search on Philosophy in the NC - I may ask that my kids school consider looking at it -

Loooks very interesting and I really believe early integration of philosophical reasoning skills are really useful to developing children. Along with proper debate of issues.

Bet that really benefits the kids pancakes sounds fun too. Ofsted love that sort of thing as well...

DS has a philosophy element in Year 7 and it's been fantastic for him. DD (Year 3) has shown an interest and I've been thinking how good it would be to introduce different ways of thinking at primary level. I found some good books for younger children and a group that does school visits (thephilosophyman.com). Philosophy Man has a mailing list with games and reading recommendations too. I'm talking to DD's Head about it now.

I think morality should be the foundation on which religious belief sits, not the other way around. "I behave this way because it's the right thing to do and I believe X" rather than "I believe X and therefore I behave this way". Belief systems can change but moral virtues like kindness, charity and generosity should remain regardless.

Interesting Tex - so maybe then Morality needs its own NC place and then RE and Philosophy become part of moral education???? Morality is also not fixed of course as it relates to societal norms and these change - marital age, the death penalty, the rights of children, women being used as chattel... so moral virtues are not fixed. The need for a society to have an agreed morality is universal throughout history and culture but the socio economic circumstances of the society in question influence the moral code they uphold.

I think morality should be the foundation on which religious belief sits, not the other way around. "I behave this way because it's the right thing to do and I believe X" rather than "I believe X and therefore I behave this way". Belief systems can change but moral virtues like kindness, charity and generosity should remain regardless.

Interesting. However I think beliefs, especially societal beliefs, can affect the way morality is viewed, even change us as people at a very deep level.

If you are interested in languages this idea transfers across to questions concerning whether language ability is inbuilt into our biology or cultural.

Traditionalists argue that language ability is inbuilt and is defined by certain features, grammar for example. However Daniel Everett's with the Pirahã people work turns this kind of thinking on it's head. They have no recursion in their language, no narrative, talking about anything outside their immediate experience is seen as Taboo, they will say it has gone out of existence.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirahã_people

Brain physiologists have noted language ability coinciding with certain brain features / development. Thus it would seem a very different form of language ability, such as the Pirahã display, would coincide with a different form of brain development /features. The existence of the Pirahã show how diverse human kind is. Their 'morals', contained within their belief system, would also show differences to Western Society.

So I do not think there is consistency within human kind concerning morality.

Pirahã language and morality is fascinating - thank you capsium - So as morality is not fixed, Religion has many forms and spirituality is not confined to religious experience either - then Philosophy is looking good as a framework for discussing and understanding all these topics.

bigmouth So as morality is not fixed,

I don't think human diversity negates morality being fixed though, just that different people(s) have a different appreciation of morality.

However from an individual human viewpoint it is difficult to judge another person, with possibly very different individual and cultural experiences to your own.

You might find this link interesting.

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/6330631.stm

Supposely teching philosophy makes children more intelligent. My son did soem philosophy in year 7 and really struggled.