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Philosophy/religion

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genuine question from atheist - view on Christanity and personal responsibility

999 replies

kentishgirl · 21/03/2014 11:26

Hi - promise this isn't just Christian-baiting.

I've come to the conclusion that Christianity is a substitute for having a personal conscience or taking personal responsibility. Being a Christian is like having a 'get out of jail free card' in that you are taught God will forgive you anything. So you can do anything, as bad as you like, go and pray for forgiveness and move on, slate wiped clean, feeling great about yourself. So it doesn't matter if you do wrong. As an atheist, if I do something wrong, it's always with me, it's always on my conscience, so that makes me always try to do the right thing.
I didn't always think this way. It's the only way I can make any sense of something that happened to me at the hands of a couple of serious, committed Christians. One of them even works full time for a church. They did something terrible to me but have shown no remorse, no guilt, and made no attempt to make things right with me. I'm positive they prayed for guidance at the time and then forgiveness afterwards, and now all's good in their world, while I'm still dealing with the fall-out.
Am I really wrong in interpreting Christianity in this way? Isn't it true that it enables horrible behaviour by teaching you that if you do wrong, all you've got to do is pray for forgiveness afterwards, and you are ok, never mind the effect of what you did? Basically if God is your only judge, and forgiveness is guaranteed, it gives you permission to act like a right bastard as long as you say sorry to God afterwards? there's no personal responsibility for what you have done.

OP posts:
BigDorrit · 06/04/2014 11:17

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BigDorrit · 06/04/2014 11:18

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headinhands · 06/04/2014 11:23

"Would you have orphaned children unable to defend for themselves"

No, I'd defend them if I could. Look, I don't even think these genocides actually happened and especially not the way they're written in the bible and the ones that did happen had nothing to do with the wishes of any god despite what they might have thought at the time.

What I'm fascinated with is your justifications for what your book says your god wanted. I used to do it myself although I can't remember how so it's interesting from that angle. I don't think I was fully aware of some of the passages. I think being around others who are justifying it through mental contortions make it more palatable which is a well documented phenomenon isn't it.

Contemplates · 06/04/2014 11:27

BigDorrit - you are happy that bin laden died but not happy with the way it was carried out?

capsium · 06/04/2014 11:29

BigDorrit that was not my aim! to suggest worshipping hierarchy. I was just pointing out with God there is hierarchy, with Him at the top. However after this it is Biblical that we do not judge others from our own human perspective, so it is not like we revere certain people, that is people should not take the place of God. We honour, respect them and love them though.

BigDorrit · 06/04/2014 11:29

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BigDorrit · 06/04/2014 11:29

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capsium · 06/04/2014 11:31

Did anyone like the folk tale I posted? I think it is good, very poignant.

Contemplates · 06/04/2014 11:31

No one is attacking you BigDorrit. This is simply a debate with different views. No need to take it as personal attacks against you Smile

On a personal level, I am discussing God and the bible, not you.

You ask me questions and I ask you some. Fair's fair.

BigDorrit · 06/04/2014 11:32

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Contemplates · 06/04/2014 11:36

BigDorrit - no not difficult to understand, I only wanted to clarify before I take that point further.

Why then, if you accept it is justice that Bin laden was taken out, but yet you understandably don't like violence, is it ok for you to see it this way and not me?

Bin laden died a violent death. You are glad about his death because you can justify it.
The biblical prophesy was talking about a lot of bin laden's and they also were judged. They doesn't mean anyone likes their violent death any more than you'd like Bin laden's.

capsium · 06/04/2014 11:40

Some people do BigDorrit, they chase after money, power, fame, intellectual prowess. Some are extreme humanists, in that human kind, and it's potential for greatness replaces God, humans become gods.

I see hierarchy just in terms of structure, in a belief / value system, with God at the top. I believe, some put other things in God's place, in their belief / value system. Atheists are not immune to this. With no hierarchy you get relativism and Post Modernism, from there, making the correct decisions in life becomes very complicated.

capsium · 06/04/2014 11:43

I've actually been in meetings where professionals point to certain key texts or policy manuals and call them their 'bible'.

Contemplates · 06/04/2014 11:44

Headinhands - there's a big difference between judgement and genocide.

capsium · 06/04/2014 11:44

Though personally I prefer the term 'landmark' texts myself....

BigDorrit · 06/04/2014 11:47

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BigDorrit · 06/04/2014 11:48

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capsium · 06/04/2014 11:48

I'm sure my A Level sociology teacher called Haralambos his 'bible', also.....

headinhands · 06/04/2014 11:49

What's the difference between judgement and genocide? If you do me wrong would it ever be just for me to directly punish your whole family? Would that ever ever be just?

capsium · 06/04/2014 11:49

Sometimes they mean it all to seriously, when policies become more important than people, for example....

capsium · 06/04/2014 11:54

It was one of our LA's criticisms, in the light of the SEN reform, that schools' management of the SEN has become too policy lead and that people should matter more than processes. The policy or process should serve the people, not the other way round.

As Christ serves us....

Contemplates · 06/04/2014 11:55

Ok BigDorrit, I told you I was seeking clarification. So put me straight then - you are glad Bin laden died. You didn't say you agreed with the way he died, and now are you saying you don't think his death was justified?

So please tell me what are your reasons for saying you're glad Bin laden died?

headinhands · 06/04/2014 12:01

And going back to the, quite frankly repugnant and would you have orphaned children unable to defend for themselves you know full well that this very scenario is happening now, today in certain parts of the world and god isn't stopping. He's not ordering his followers to drive them through with a sword is he?

So he gave enough of a shit about them to kill them then (I know, I know, ignore the obvious logic fail) but not now? Why? Why doesn't he kill off orphaned children nowadays?

capsium · 06/04/2014 12:06

And sorry to push but I do think the folk tale I posted earlier is relevant here, as well as being poignant. Please watch it...not that I can be over enthusiastic at all....but I loved it!

BigDorrit · 06/04/2014 12:26

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