genuine question from atheist - view on Christanity and personal responsibility

[kentishgirl]

Hi - promise this isn't just Christian-baiting.

I've come to the conclusion that Christianity is a substitute for having a personal conscience or taking personal responsibility. Being a Christian is like having a 'get out of jail free card' in that you are taught God will forgive you anything. So you can do anything, as bad as you like, go and pray for forgiveness and move on, slate wiped clean, feeling great about yourself. So it doesn't matter if you do wrong. As an atheist, if I do something wrong, it's always with me, it's always on my conscience, so that makes me always try to do the right thing.
I didn't always think this way. It's the only way I can make any sense of something that happened to me at the hands of a couple of serious, committed Christians. One of them even works full time for a church. They did something terrible to me but have shown no remorse, no guilt, and made no attempt to make things right with me. I'm positive they prayed for guidance at the time and then forgiveness afterwards, and now all's good in their world, while I'm still dealing with the fall-out.
Am I really wrong in interpreting Christianity in this way? Isn't it true that it enables horrible behaviour by teaching you that if you do wrong, all you've got to do is pray for forgiveness afterwards, and you are ok, never mind the effect of what you did? Basically if God is your only judge, and forgiveness is guaranteed, it gives you permission to act like a right bastard as long as you say sorry to God afterwards? there's no personal responsibility for what you have done.

But the spirits described in the Bible dan be good or bad, clean and unclean. Just as bacteria can be beneficial or harmful.

^can. Typo.

And how do you describe microscopic things to people with no microscopes or technology for seeing them or detecting them?

I think of a lot of current readers add the drama to the text. When you read the accounts, they seem much more matter of fact than current thoughts today on spirits and demons.

When Jesus encounters them he remains calm and just commands them to leave or words to similar effect.

No, you don't understand, he could have described bacteria and viruses in neutral terms instead of portraying them as these fictional baddies.

capsium: "In the Bible a lot of, what we would describe as patterns of thinking, is described in terms of spirit. The spirit of worry and unbelief etc. I was thinking in terms of this, anxiety does cause a lot of stress which can escalate into something that would be diagnosed clinically."

Interesting, but how does that translate into the demon being cast into a herd of pigs which then committed suicide because they couldn't cope?

You describe microscopic things by saying they are really small. If they could grasp heaven/sin/spirits etc they could easily grasp small things

Bacteria can be beneficial or harmful to us but we know it's not personal and that bacteria themselves are neither good or bad. They just are.

You say Jesus did it without drama but the whole pig debacle was so OTT. Don't even start me on the figs.

What does repenting actually mean?

capsium: "they did understand some of the ways bacteria work but used the terminology of spirits, clean and unclean"

Which sounds very much like the way someone would describe the effects of bacteria when they didn't know they existed. Which, of course, they didn't. And Jesus left them in the dark about it, although he did tell them to love god or else.

It sounds to me like the word "spirit" has such a wide definition that it can mean anything that the ancients didn't understand.

Cobra the dysfunction was caused by spirits which left entered the person affected and entered the pigs. It suggests dysfunctional patterns of thought etc can travel, be transmitted, from an individual. Similar to the Victorian idea of thoughts being transmitted across the 'ether' and ideas of Zeitgeist.

head in relation to humans bacteria are either harmful or beneficial, depending on context, though.

Bacteria are not really small, they are invisible to the naked eye.

Saying everything and everybody has capacity to sin, do something against God's will, is not personal either.

Casual

www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/spirit

Added to this in Alchemy, alcohol was distilled from plants in an attempt to capture their spirit. Blood rituals performed by warriors were performed in attempt to take on the strength of their opponent, blood was said to contain spirit. Similar to beliefs concerning Vampires.

Cobra it worked, though, didn't it.

So these spirits were not viral or bacterial. And they produced symptoms that we now recognise as being caused by a mental illness. But the ancients believed that they could be cast out into animals. What is more likely, that demons were actually cast into some animals or that this was a story made up by a desert goat herder with a talent for being a bit of a raconteur?

Lambstales a change of direction. Previous behaviour, belief is rejected and all is changed. In terms of Christianity the old self is rejected as fallible and Christ is accepted as Saviour.

Cobra that answer to your question is a matter of belief.

And as spirit is described it would be able to affect bacteria or viruses.

A spirit, as depicted in the Bible, can affect any physical matter.

"Added to this in Alchemy, alcohol was distilled from plants in an attempt to capture their spirit. Blood rituals performed by warriors were performed in attempt to take on the strength of their opponent, blood was said to contain spirit. Similar to beliefs concerning Vampires."

To be fair, you'd have to give as much credence to those ideas as you would a demon being cast out into an animal. There is just as much evidence for it happening.

"A spirit, as depicted in the Bible, can affect any physical matter."

And in that matter it is no different to the gods that the Greeks, Romans, Babylonians, Assyrians, Medes, etc used to attribute to natural forces such as water, wind, lightning, etc.

Cobra those examples were not Christian though. There is some commonality in folk / religious belief.

X post.

I believe the false religions were corrupted, from an original Truth.