Any Christians that can help me?: 'The Great Tribulation' always causes massive arguments between dh and I

[lookout]

...and I'm fed up of it. He's obsessed by all these theories of the red moon, and the Rapture and End Times whereas I much prefer living out my faith in a Christ-like and God-honouring way, knowing always that Jesus could return at any minute. I don't know how to talk to him about it and it always ends up in a bun fight. It's frustrating.

I've not come across the Red Moon and only heard about the rapture when I started going online 10 years ago. Obsessing about the detail of the end times seems a bit pointless as the point is we don't know when it is going to happen. Sorry, that isn't much help.

As a Catholic I have never heard of any of this. Surely our faith is based on faith, hope and love? Obsessing about the future certainly doesn't seem to be living in hope or having faith that Jesus has already conquered? Where do all these ideas come from? I'm quite intrigued. Which Christian tradition or church do you belong to or identify with?

Do you think it could be a version of the secular survivalist ideas? They enjoy stockpiling and waiting for the collapse of civilization. Maybe it's an expression of anxiety. I'm sure there are women who find these ideas appealing but I have personally found men particularly seem to be drawn to doom laden scenarios (the ones I know are atheist).

We are from an Evangelical church originally but now practising at a big Anglican church. This seems to debunk a lot of the Blood (not, red, sorry. You see I only half listen ) Moon theories here, and also explains what people like dh are so obsessed by.

Basically, I think, it is the idea that certain astronomical signs that are taking place this and next year mean that the end of days will happen in the next 12-18 months .

Oh, he is also very 'doom-laden', in that the Great Tribulation will mean horrible physical and mental torment for all Christians before the Rapture takes place (which is not even mentioned in the Bible, I don't think). Honestly it sounds ridiculous typing it out, so imagine having to have conversations about it without saying just how fanatical and, well, weird, it sounds. Hence the arguments.

Thank you lookout, that's very interesting. I have to say I only skim-read the information on the link you kindly posted as it made my head hurt! I wouldn't touch any of this stuff with a barge pole personally, and it sounds like you are in the same place. Christianity does not need to be so complicated, quite the opposite. What God asks of us is quite straight-forward and simple but we seem to have a desire to gussy it up in some form! Astrology, superstitition and any form of telling the future is forbidden in the Catholic church. God is in the ever present now.

You could ask your DH to put all these dates in writing, put them in an envelope, file it and forget it. In the probable scenario that the end of the world doesn't happen in 18 months - you can check the dates and toss it in the bin. If it does happen, the best preparation as you have already stated is a gentle and humble Christ-like spirit and being ready like the bridesmaids with our lamps lit, constantly in prayer.

Can you agree to disagree and no longer discuss it but just keep praying together? Prayer combined with fasting is also very powerful as Jesus tells us so you could pray and fast for your DH one day a week (in the quiet of your heart). Maybe he's been watching too many Hollywood Blockbusters!

I have come across other young(ish) Christians who go through this phase. There are many aspects to faith, it appeals to different people in different ways. Some, for example, are musical, express their faith that way, and think a lot about the music they hear and play. Others are apocalyptic in nature - fascinated by the end times - and that becomes a focus of their faith. We are all different, but ideally as Christians we should aim to be well rounded - to know what the Bible says about the end times, but to be aware of God in our everyday lives too.

I went to see a wise old pastor once about a group in church who were focusing on something that was entirely new to me, he kindly suggested that if ever I was worried, just to ask the question "Does it give glory to Jesus . . ." That is our sole aim in whatever we are doing. If talking about the end times helps your husband focus on his life and give glory to Jesus everyday, then maybe you can learn to live with it. But if it is distracting him from the One who should be at the centre of his faith, perhaps you could gently point out to him that it would be nice for you to be able to talk about Him more, and to see what He wants you to do in your home, your community and your church.

HTH

Perhaps point out that despite literally thousands of predictions about the end of the world, none have ever come true and the protagonists end up looking pretty stupid.

My personal opinion is that it's actually quite dangerous. The 2011 rapture prediction of Harold Camping actually resulted in a number of individuals spending their life savings and selling their homes to travel the world spreading the word of the end of the world. It can lead to cult - like behaviour which can destroy people's lives.

I completely agree, Pedro. It can cause damaging behaviour.

The whole 'end times' thing has gone a bit overboard in some circles. The 'Left Behind' series of books should be taken as fiction, but are taken as fact by many. People have interpreted certain passages from Revelation, 1 Thessalonians and Daniel in a certain way, which actually bears little resemblance to the actual words. (Revelation is impossible to understand, so trying to interpret it as anything beyond Christ will come again and we should be ready is fairly pointless...) The 'Rapture' is based on a passage from Thessalonians which is referring to something completely different.

Get him to read Tom Wright's 'Surprised by Hope.' That'll learn him
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I'm not sure how to help, OP, but this book may, if he agrees to read it.

Thank you for replying, all. Dh does say that it helps him to focus on his life and be prepared for Jesus' second coming, but I find it difficult to engage in the conversation, because for me it detracts.

I think the agree to disagree idea will probably be the most practical, coupled with praying together a bit more. Not something we manage to do very often at all.

I personally also think it's dangerous. There seems to be a lot of time spent researching this rather than eg. fasting and praying (just as an example). But then I MN too much, so...

Thanks for making me not feel so bad about being so anti this stuff, though. Glad I'm not alone!

I'm knackered following 3 days of vomming children and just wanted to say one thing (I've been a Christian since my teens, when this was very prominent thinking - the 80s with all the "Left Behind" books/films etc. and just a few years back I did a theology degree). The Bible (Mat 24? From memory??) talks about no-one knowing "the day or the hour" - not Jesus, or the Angels. It has always seemed massively arrogant to me to put a date on this.

There are also a lot of US right wing Zionist politics in there too - I can dig out some links if you want.

Weegiemum the Zionism is very clear on the above link. Rather than wade into it all, I would just politely ignore it - the Catholics, Orthodox, Copts and Lutherans do .

Not my sort of thing at all. Jesus doesn't ask us to think about these sorts of things. He says not to obsess about when the second coming might be, but simply to live as we are taught. As others have said, there is also the potential for hysteria and for unscrupulous people to exploit this.

I don't really see the point of hypothesising about what might or might not happen re the end of the world. It seems to be a bit of a waste of time tbh. What will happen will happen.

Don't you just love religion- it's laughable when two so called christians can't even agree.

Christians still have disagreements just like other human beings. I thought that was normal?

longtallsally - I am indeed from the midlands :)

I agree about the focus on something like this taking our focus off what God is actually doing in lives today, which is not a good thing. People can get very obsessive about it all, there's a whole end times movement stateside which goes very over the top. And yes Jesus said no one knows the day or hour, so why speculate?

I hope your dh is happy to agree to disagree.

I don't see the point either, there are more pressing ways to be living out my faith. And hopefully yes, he will let this go. Maybe also one day he'll 'get over it'

It makes sense that we aren't supposed to know when. It keeps us in an indefinite position of 'back foot', a bit like any other sort of attempt to manipulate someone into behaving as instructed 'or else'.

Sorry, that's perhaps a little harsh but I am not struck with the organised religions really and am rather suspicious of the patriarchical systems involved.

But it just occurred to me on reading this.

'John Hagee is the founder and senior pastor of Cornerstone Church in San Antonio, Texa--a non-denominational mega-church with more than 20,000 active members. It is said that Hagee speaks worldwide into 99 million homes. He forged an unprecedented alliance between Israel-loving Christians and Zionist Jews. His organization, "Christians United for Israel," lobbies for the Jewish state and opposes any land concessions for peace. Hagee has boasted that his powerful organization has more influence than the famous Jewish lobbying group AIPAC.'

He's all about the power isn't he. Listen when a man tells you who he is.

Rooners, yes that Hagee guy is the one responsible, I think, for the blood money craziness. I wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him.

I am guessing your Anglican church is evangelical though? It seems to be an evangelical thing in general. I also attend an Anglican church (v high church) and there's none of that. The Rapture is based on v dodgy theology and given that most Christians in the world (Catholic, Orthodox, Anglican, Lutheran) don't believe it, it's really not worth wasting energy on.

Ooh Rooners google Doug Philips + scandal. Not sure if Cornerstone is his church (although it rings a bell) but he's a prominent church leader (those kinds of churches usually have more than one leader) in San Antonio. Massive douchebag. Agreed, listen when a man tells you who he is.

Yes, it isLittleBabyPigsus, although dh certainly hasn't got any of this stuff from church. Our teaching is very Biblically sound, I have no worries there. No, dh has got all this stuff from the Great Web of Knowledge . A dangerous place indeed! I totally agree that the Rapture has such tenuous links to Scripture as to be easily dismissible, I always find it fascinating that some people can be so ready to hook up to it.