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Original poster

The vicar and his wife

81 replies

curiosity · 23/07/2006 18:48

I've recently found out that our vicar and his wife got together a long time ago whilst both married to other people.

I have no strong feelings on this subject, but I've been thinking about it since I was told. I am not a regular churchgoer, although DH does attend.

I have no wish to offend anyone with this post, and whilst everyone is entitled to their views, I'm mostly interested in how churchgoers view this.

OP posts:
bloss · 27/07/2006 09:07

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nearlythree · 27/07/2006 19:28

Mary, I most definitely don't think your faith needs challenging. And I know what you mean about not seeking out the kind of books that might disagree with the accepted view of history - I never sought them out either, but once I knew they existed I couldn't ignore them. To do so, to me, would have been to say my faith couldn't stand up to what they had to say.

Interesting, bloss, that you can find an intellectual argument to prove the infallibility of the Bible, particularly the historical one. The most glaring inconsistancies (the ones in the Nativity, for example) could hardly be called minor. Then there is the wider historical context; why is the Christian Virgin birth story true and those from other cultures prevalent at the time (e.g. Greek) not, just to give one example. I do agree that history proves something; the very existence of the church means that the early disciples experienced something that chamged their lives. I guess I just find Jesus far more compelling, startling and real once I strip away the (imo) myths and untruths constructed around him. (hope that doesn't offend.)

WhenI have doubts I can't reason my way back to faith. Instead my memory feeds on those past experiences when I've felt very close to God. There have been times recently, during all the s**t of the past few months, when I've felt so alone that I've said out loud that there is no God. That's when I really need to hang onto those moments when the Spirit has been in my life. I am slowly beginning to feel where God is again, but it's hard when my mind is all over the place. At least these conversations give me something else to think about!

bloss · 28/07/2006 03:40

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MaryBS · 28/07/2006 15:18

Personally, I feel I have enough books to read about my faith, before reading books which disprove my faith . I have read books that have presented (I believe) an objective and historical viewpoint, but these have not dented my faith in any way.

Nearlythree - I am SO sorry to hear you have felt that alone. When you say 'your mind is all over the place' is that just as far as it relates to God/Jesus and your beliefs, or is it other things (such as your new baby)?

Bloss - I am interested to hear how Jesus rising from the dead makes it more likely that there was a virgin birth...

nearlythree · 28/07/2006 16:33

Mary, it's just been a tough time. My friend's ds dying was a huge part of my pregnancy. Then we've experienced so much illness, and I can no longer think that they will be fine because I've seen first hand that sometimes the mildest of illnesses can turn out to be major. Twice it's been thought that dd2 may have meningitis which is what killed the poor little chap. I was fine when ds was born but when dd2 was taken ill the day after he was born I just got so traumatised, she was in the same hospital as me and yet I couldn't see her, and I couldn't get hold of dh very easily so I had to rely on the hospital staff. Then when we got home dd1 got CP and I was misinformed that ds had a one in five chance of dying from it, then dd2 got CP really badly. I get flashbacks and hate going to bed because I dream about it and it brings it all back, and I hate the thought of a new day because it could bring yet more s*t. OTOH I'm counting the days til the summer is over and ds is a bit bigger. It took me ages to reconnect with dd2 and settle down with ds and I feel so guilty about not being there for her and how badly I coped. And I am very, very angry. Tbh thinking about my religious beliefs is taking my mind off it all; I don't miss the church as they were c*p after dd1 nearly died at birth anyway. Thank you for your concern and your prayers recently.

Bloss, will post later re the Resurrection - I think the inconsistencies there are just as major. Have you read Geza Vermes? Or the works of the Jesus seminar?

MaryBS · 28/07/2006 20:45

nearlythree one big hug to you {hug}. Frankly, with what you've been through, it amazes me how together you are! I hope and pray you can sort out what it is you are looking for. Maybe with some peace in your heart, things will start to make sense. God bless.

nearlythree · 28/07/2006 21:32

Mary, I've been lucky, the one place I've been able to find God is in other people, particularly the staff in the hospital and also a maternity nurse who we hired (but I do feel uneasy because we could afford to and so many can't) - she has become such a good friend she now comes to stay and look after the girls just because she likes them! I truly believe that they were sent to us when we needed them. But right now, feeling God inside like I used to...no, that I can't do. I'm believing on an intellectual level, my faith makes more sense to me than ever before in that way, but I can't hear God. But then I am rubbish at tuning into God whenever I'm having problems, it always seems to be afterwards which isn't a lot of good really! Thanks again for the hugs and prayers, compared to what some go though it's not so much and I am sure we will get there in the end.

bloss · 29/07/2006 00:31

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MaryBS · 29/07/2006 02:49

bloss - good point, I just wondered how you came to your conclusions. So, if you could pick one book (other than the bible!) that has helped you most, which book would that be?

nearlythree - I can't always hear God or feel Him, but sometimes it is enough to know he is there. He is obviously there in your life.

bloss · 29/07/2006 05:38

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MaryBS · 29/07/2006 07:08

Which has most impact on what you believe? The theology or the history? Bear with me, I'm a simple soul

bloss · 30/07/2006 11:42

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MaryBS · 31/07/2006 17:49

Well, I don't have any doubt about the theology - so what history book would you recommend? Doesn't have to cover everything, maybe something you needed clarifying.

bloss · 04/08/2006 09:42

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bloss · 04/08/2006 10:15

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MaryBS · 04/08/2006 12:17

Thank you - they sound really interesting books, and would probably be of great use in my studies. Will see if I can track them down, but I may come back to you....

LoveMyGirls · 05/08/2006 08:30

so god thinks it is better to stay with someone who may beat you, disrespect you, be disloyal to you etc basically making you live a miserable life than to just walk away and find happiness?

no wonder he isnt as popular these days with the younger generation.

MaryBS · 05/08/2006 09:21

No He doesn't. Otherwise I would still be with my ex-husband. However He doesn't give you carte blanche to help yourself to someone else's either.
God judges us individually on our actions.

nearlythree · 05/08/2006 10:40

I'm not sure God 'thinks' at all. And He/she/whatever doesn't judge either. We manage that perfectly well by ourselves, and punish ourselves accordingly, even if we don't realise it.

bloss · 05/08/2006 23:10

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MaryBS · 06/08/2006 18:35

So are you against remarriage for Christians then? Or do you deem it 'permissible under certain circumstances'?

bloss · 06/08/2006 22:56

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MaryBS · 07/08/2006 16:29

Do you mean Matt 19 v9 (also 5 v32)? I have heard arguments both for and against divorce and remarriage with respect to this passage. In my case and that of my DH, we had both been married before (neither of us had any children by our ex-s) and both of us were the 'innocent' party in that our respective spouses had been unfaithful and left us for someone else. (At this stage we didn't know each other, either).
I have spent the past 15 years struggling with this (9 of which I have been married to my DH - which took place in church), and whether I could be forgiven for wanting to remarry, and then remarrying. God knows how low I was brought down over this, and how I was too scared to pray for forgiveness because I was afraid of what God would expect of me - whether my marriage was valid in the sight of God. So many times I would go to church and have to leave because I couldn't stop crying, I so badly wanted to be forgiven but was scared that the price of my forgiveness would be the end of this marriage.
In the end, I prayed, and prayed and prayed. I now KNOW God has forgiven me, because He has told me so. I know that my marriage is acceptable to Him. I can give no theological explanation for knowing, except that He has called me to ministry, and I do not believe He would have done that if I were not acceptable to Him. Believe me when I say I never sought ministry, never considered it until He called me. Didn't think I had the gifts required (until He gave them to me!).

The above isn't a particularly good argument, but it is from the heart, and it is what I believe (and not just because I want it to be like that - otherwise why would I have taken 15 years to get to that conclusion?). God bless - I believe he has blessed me.

longwaytogo · 07/08/2006 22:02

marybs that is a beutiful way to put it.

Heathcliffscathy · 07/08/2006 22:24

historicity: wikipedia entry

historicity of jesus

quote: 'there are no extant contemporaneous documents that make mention of Jesus. The earliest known sources are Christian writings - the New Testament - which, according to modern historians, were written several decades after he is said to have died.'

bloss 'quality of evidence'??????

the bible as it stands is a mish mash of sources written decades after the death of jesus. there is serious historical doubt as to whether he even exists.

god is much bigger than 'facts'.

my god is anyway.

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