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Original poster

Refused baptism, is this normal in the CofE these days?

42 replies

RodneyTheChristmasElf · 17/12/2013 08:01

My DS is 9 months old and I want to get him baptised. I'm currently not living in the UK so don't have a church of my own to go to. So my MIL asked at her church about getting him baptised there when we're in the UK in a couple of months. This is the church where MIL has run the pensioners weekly lunch for 40 years and where DH was baptised/confirmed and grew up in. The vicar has refused to do it as she only baptises babies who are part of that church community and who are going to grow up in that community. So first grandchild of one of the longest standing parishoner doesn't count :(

OP posts:

paulapantsdown · 17/12/2013 18:47

Ah no, this was all 8 years ago, and I'm very happy in my newly found athiesm now!

LittleBabyPigsus · 17/12/2013 21:03

I've never seen a grandchild of someone in the parish be baptised at a CoE church. Baptism is for children in the parish, or children of regular attenders, but not their grandchildren! Baptism is, like the vicar says, welcoming children into the church community and isn't supposed to just be for children who never darken the door of the church again. However a service of blessing and thanksgiving should be no problem.

Also I don't get going to different churches - surely your child should be baptised into a church whose theology you agree with?

marmitecat · 17/12/2013 21:13

This is wrong (I know the rules.) Drop an email to the diocese. I am quite understanding when vicars won't do one-off baptisms outside normal service times for people who don't go to the church but to refuse baptism altogether is not acceptable in the cofe.

My own parish church welcomes and encourages baptism - couples getting married who already have children are encouraged to get the kids baptised at the same service which is lovely.

ContinentalKat · 17/12/2013 21:24

Rodney, the same happened to us when we were living in Europe. Nearest Anglican Church a 2 hour drive away, refused to baptise ds.
Dh, who is CofE, understandably refused to even consider a Catholic christening. PILs church in the UK refused as we were not regular members of the congregation.

Being a lapsed Catholic myself, and suffering from PND, I was going nuts thinking that ds would go to hell if he was to die unchristened.
Luckily a friend of mine made me talk to a Lutheran vicar friend of hers who convinced me that ds would most definitely not go to hell if left unchristened.

Years later, both dcs are still unchristened.

Original poster

RodneyTheChristmasElf · 17/12/2013 21:39

Also I don't get going to different churches - surely your child should be baptised into a church whose theology you agree with?

I'm a Christian, denomination is irrelevant to me (although I tend towards CofE and Catholicism as I had a parent active in each) what matters to me is that I feel/see God's presence in a church. I don't believe there's a church anywhere where all members are in total agreement over theology. Being a Christian means believing in Christ and giving your life over to him, everything else is just window dressing.

OP posts:

NoComet · 18/12/2013 12:42

DH, DSIL and there parents didn't totally agree on theology, never mind a whole congregation.

kelda · 18/12/2013 12:45

We were in a similar situation, living abroad and wanted our children baptised at my childhood church. Not sure if it made a difference that it was a Catholic church, but the priest agreed without hesitation.

Longtalljosie · 18/12/2013 15:52

The funny thing is the C of E says you can get married in a church if you have a local connection (including that it's your parents' church). I'm really surprised they're being sniffy about baptism. Especially in your circumstances.

Original poster

RodneyTheChristmasElf · 18/12/2013 17:46

Because I'm an awkward bugger I emailed the bishop. I got a lovely response from the vicar of a neighbouring church saying he's sorry I was not made to feel welcome, he doesn't think there's any point insisting on it taking place in MILs church as this will just create bad feeling, but he would be more than happy to do it for us as his church.

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lottieandmia · 20/12/2013 17:39

Any church that turns someone away and refuses to baptise have lost sight of what they are supposed to be doing and ought to be ashamed of themselves imo. The church is not an exclusive club.

3bunnies · 20/12/2013 17:55

Glad you seem to have Churches falling over themselves now to baptise your ds. I am CofE, dh Catholic and we have gone down the Catholic route - dd1 took her 1st communion this year. I think that basically dh and I believe similar things but there are some points of doctrine which I think would make it hard for me to convert - although I go to both churches regularly. I am happy though for them to be raised Catholic as I know that when they are older if they wish they will be welcomed by the Cof E community whereas it is harder to go from CofE to Catholic.

I hope that the baptism goes well and that you find a more local church which you are happy with.

ReallyTired · 20/12/2013 18:04

" So first grandchild of one of the longest standing parishoner doesn't count sad"

Its the parents who generally make the promises to bring the child up as a christian rather than the grandmother. It doesn't matter two hoots who pious a grandmother is as she does not parental responsiblity.

I think that people on this thread have lost sight of what baptism actuallly is! In this circumstance I think the priest is right to refuse baptism. Personally I don't think that any child should be baptised unless the parents regularly attend church. Baptism is not a naming cermony that takes place in a pretty building with childhood connections. It is the parents and god parents promising to make a major parenting decision.

The C of E is not a seperate religion to christians in other parts of the world. The Church of England are a bunch of christians who mostly live in England or the commonwealth. There are Christians all over Europe and the C of E recongises these churches. In fact many churches abroad also recongise the C of E. Often the differences are language and culture rather than basic belief. (However there are a lot of sects of christianity that don't recongise other churches - I know!)

The C of E position is that all babies/ children go to heaven and this is supported in scripture. A person can be baptised at any age. Infact dh was baptised at 43 and dd was 3 and half years old.

cloutiedumpling · 20/12/2013 18:35

I don't live in England and have never attended a CofE christening. Is the congregation expected to make vows saying that they will help support the parents in bringing up the baby? If so, I can see why a priest may be unwilling to baptise a baby if the parents don't live locally or attend church.

ReallyTired · 20/12/2013 19:37

Its mainly the parents and the god parents who make the promises, but the congretaion do make promises as well.

Faith is the gift of God to his people.
  	In baptism the Lord is adding to our number
  	     those whom he is calling.
  	People of God, will you welcome these children/candidates
  	    and uphold them in their new life in Christ?

All
With the help of God, we will.

www.churchofengland.org/prayer-worship/worship/texts/initiation/baptism.aspx

AdoraBell · 20/12/2013 19:55

As an aside, if an older DC wants To be baptized and the parents do not attend would the church refuse?

Original poster

RodneyTheChristmasElf · 20/12/2013 20:18

ReallyTired it's not a pretty building, it's a 1950's pile of red-brick hideousness. We are a Christian family, we don't regularly go to conventional church for reasons already stated but we do attend a weekly prayer group. The godparents are both practising Christians, godmother is a lay-preacher. We asked at this church because it's the closest we currently have to a church of our own. It's the one we go to when in the UK, which admittedly is only 3 times each summer.

OP posts:

ReallyTired · 21/12/2013 15:02

There is a higher proportion of practicing Christians in Sweden than the UK. From looking at the internet it appears the church of Sweden is very similar in outlook to the church of England. The Church of Sweden does infant baptism and their baptisms are recongised by the church of England. If you are applying for a British Church of England school then most schools look at recent church attendence and don't care if the child has been baptised.

I realise that the UK has a far more dense population than sweden, but other swedish christians have the same issues of finding a church.

"As an aside, if an older DC wants To be baptized and the parents do not attend would the church refuse?"

If the child is (I think!) aged eight or over then they can baptised after some instruction from the priest at our church. An eight year old is capable of making their own promises and doesn't need godparents. The church of England is very varied on when they allow first communion. Confirmation is done at thirteen years old or older in our diocese.

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