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Philosophy/religion

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Original poster

Santa is the Devil in disguise- Poor little 4 year old

50 replies

msmiggins · 10/12/2013 08:08

Don't you just love it- my poor 4 year old great nephew has been taught by nursery to reject Santa as he is the devil.
They have even given a lesson to show that the word Santa is an anagram of Satan- which proves it- obviously.
Now the poor mite hides when he sees anyone dressed up as santa selling christmas trees or in the store.
Don't ya just love what the church can do to young minds!

OP posts:

Original poster

msmiggins · 10/12/2013 18:29

I believe its fairly common amongst Baptists in Australia to reject Santa.

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specialsubject · 10/12/2013 18:34

child abuse. But if it is religion, it seems that it is allowed.

shame on all the parents, may they get what they deserve. And may their children survive this.

Original poster

msmiggins · 10/12/2013 18:43

I agree specialsubject.
My dear niece has accused my sister of abusing her for bringing her up in this way. - Over christmas lunch!! Glad I wasn't there- although I fully support my niece's view.

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SconeRhymesWithGone · 10/12/2013 19:02

I am aware of people not teaching their children that Santa is real due to religious reasons, but they don't say he is Satan; they say he is make believe. There is a big difference.

Mumrose · 10/12/2013 19:05

Poor kids

DevonFolk · 10/12/2013 23:04

It's such a sad story msmiggins. I'm a Christian and so I obviously know many Christians, but none with such hardline beliefs. I can see very easily how and why this has caused such a rift in your family and why you've become even more determined in your belief, or lack of.

headinhands · 10/12/2013 23:05

Arffing at Christians telling their kids that Santa isn't real and is make believe.

misswishy · 11/12/2013 11:25

I must need saving...the house is decked out, windows open, Christmas songs going.

The doorbell rings and four children shout 'daddy'
I said...' no its none of your daddies...it'll be the postman'

I open the door to two mc jw peddling their brand of religion .

I'm a cm so it's not unusual to me,
But heaven knows what went through their small minds if the look they gave each other is anything to go by!!!!!

Greensleeves · 11/12/2013 17:44

there's about as much evidence for Santa as there is for God... possibly more

Original poster

msmiggins · 11/12/2013 18:27

Exactly Greensleeves.

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TheSporkforeatingkyriarchy · 11/12/2013 18:49

Heartbreaking, so wrong to terrify a child like that.

I heard of this when I was young (not from my parents, my mother was obsessed with all things Santa, but from American evangelical ministers - the big TV kind were on a lot in our household). The one that messed with me the most was one (John Hagee) who went on about how Disney and such movies were all filled with Satanic messages and supporting them was supporting the Devil. I ended up black bagging and hiding all my Disney stuff in my closet, I got so upset about it, and I was still very young at this point. I think they're all still in a black bag somewhere in my mother's house. I can still hear him at times, his loud booming voice about how fire burns whether ones believes it or not...

It kinda conditions one to be terrified of everything outside of ones own little nest, it's systematic breaking and indoctrinating to fear everything outside of the fold. It took me a while to get out of it, even though I started questioning in my early teens and even then it was made clear it was very unsafe to be questioning things until I was out of my parents' house.

While we don't do Christmas, I certainly don't terrify my kids with aspects of it - they're welcome to join in with others when invited and we can invite to ours. I try very hard to keep that culture of fear away for my family not, it's very damaging, I think.

Original poster

msmiggins · 11/12/2013 19:01

Are you religious at all Spork? I see you don't celebrate christmas- is that because of your religion?

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ZombiePenguin · 11/12/2013 20:24

That poor child. He must be terrified. I was brought up Baptist (with very liberal Baptist parents, I am an agnostic btw and chose not to go since I was 11). Why would anyone do this? I can't imagine being surrounded by the thing you are most scared of, presumably, for the child, with everyone seeming all excited and happy about it...

Original poster

msmiggins · 11/12/2013 20:31

Zombie, thing is, it'' his whole nursery class 20 kids who are being fed this rubbish and scared out of their wits.
His mother's view is that he needs to learn of Satan's devious ways so he can safeguard himself. She thinks she is protecting him.

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ZombiePenguin · 11/12/2013 21:26

I guess the parents want the best for him.

But surely walking down the high street, there will be Christmas decs in the street or shop windows? Or going to Tesco, or another supermarket? M DC haven't ever believed in Santa Claus (cultural/childhood reasons) but it would be like making kids scared of the Tooth Fairy or Thomas the Tank Engine.

Original poster

msmiggins · 11/12/2013 21:31

Zombie, his parents, grandparents and church all think that Satan is everywhere anyway, in music, most kids TV, newspapers and magazines. Part of raising their children is to make them aware of the dangers.
I agree though - it must be a terrifying time of year= there are santa images everywhere.

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TheSporkforeatingkyriarchy · 12/12/2013 18:18

I used to be, but not now. I was raised in a very religious home (my father's side almost everyone is a minister or a works in religious charity/missionary work), and even when I got out of that and left home I still felt that pull for 'something that has all answers' for a while. I took years to get out of that and only because of philosophies I was already building outside of the faith became in such conflict that I hit crisis point. Now, I have very important traditions and philosophies, but no longer feel a need for a faith nor any desire to believe in those gods or what those faiths say.

Really, I don't celebrate Christmas because I have no fond memories of it and never enjoyed it. It was an incredibly stressful time for me as a child, it was more of a performance for the community than a holiday (because I was the Pastor's granddaughter, I was the children's pastor's niece, we were [father's family] surname and have to be just so in the eyes of others even when behind closed doors my family was a mess) and even my mother's obsession with Santa/Christmas/the belief in it all was in someways now that I look back on it a way to try to counteract that, it was just more stress to me. I just have no desire to connect to that, and find that we've created far more enjoyable traditions outside of it for ourselves that I don't think I could have done within those traditions. Others can, but I really needed to break away from all that and build something on our own and I enjoy this far better.

Original poster

msmiggins · 12/12/2013 20:57

That's a shame Spork. There is so much fun to be found in a secular christmas- I grew up with that and now create a magical christmas for my family with all the fun of santa, trees, stockings, gifts, yule logs- but no mention of the church or jesus.
Just the way we like it.

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TheSporkforeatingkyriarchy · 12/12/2013 23:58

I don't see it as a shame, and actually find that attitude quite patronizing and annoying. We have our own holidays, spread throughout the year, spreading out the joy, magic, gifts, connection, togetherness, and philosophies - and that's just the way we like it. They are important and valuable to us, we have over a dozen celebrations plus birthdays and anniversaries, to have together as a family throughout the year.

Just because you find it fun, doesn't mean it's for everyone else or that everyone else wants to take part or would enjoy taking part. I have absolutely no desire to add another occasion to the calendar nor do I feel any loss of not having a decorated tree or yule log in my life at this time of year. Why would I want to when I already have so many wonderful events throughout the year, why would I want to add one more, just before one of our favourite traditions, that has no meaning for us and was part of a tradition and belief system that I have no desire to be connected to again in any way, shape, or form - to me, it's a tradition of stress (just look at these message boards and the relief of not being part of that is amazing) and a belief system that colonized my ancestors to the point some died for their traditions and some are far too scared to consider life outside of a colonized lifestyle because the messages past down and still going around about what happens when you stepped outside of the lines are so brutal and life inside of it still so unequal.

We've built something we get a lot of fun out of, something that is part of who we are that connects to our past and to our hopes for the future. And I wish more people could respect and recognise that we have just as much joy and magic in our lives even when the 25th is no more than a day to countdown to New Year's for us. For billions of people, the 25th is just another day, and most of us are quite happy and can have just as much fun with our own traditions. Its not a shame, it's just different from what you know.

I mean seriously, I say that I've never enjoyed Christmas, have no desire to celebrate it and enjoy our own holidays far more, and people so often go 'oh, but our Christmas is fun' as if you enjoying a holiday affects whether or not I will enjoy it aor that it will make me want to take part. Tons of people say that don't bother with New Year's because they find the adult stuff boring, I think people would pull me up on people being different if I went on about how it's such a fun family day with the countdown, and the camp out, and the games, and the eating to the clock, and such, and they would be right to do so, I think.

TwistedRib · 13/12/2013 00:10

Baptist here. Ds's both believed in Santa till about the age of 10. Please don't tar us all with the same brush.
The actions of a minority suddenly get assumed to be the majority viewpoint.
Most of us are actually quite normal

Original poster

msmiggins · 13/12/2013 06:50

Spork you have displayed some of the bitterness and hostility you feel with your last post- a nice illustration btw.

You celebrate festivals but you are not religious? I don't understand- unless you are wiccan perhaps?

There is such a thing as shared community and society. Schools, village celebrations etc all pay heed to the fact that chistmas is happening in the UK-children especially feel good when they are part of a greater community.
I lived in a Bhuddist country for a while and was happy to take part in many of the fun activities that were organised at special times.

I am interested in your philosophies and keen to understand despite your antagonistic post.

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sashh · 13/12/2013 08:24

You celebrate festivals but you are not religious? I don't understand- unless you are wiccan perhaps?

That is such an ignorant thing to say. Only slightly less ignorant than

Are you religious at all Spork? I see you don't celebrate christmas- is that because of your religion?

Don't you see how ....... well just wrong.......... that is? The assumption that someone doesn't celebrate a religious festival because they are..... well.....religious?

There are many many festivals that don't have links to religion, many things you can celebrate if you want. Just because one person enjoys one festival it does not mean someone else will.

Original poster

msmiggins · 13/12/2013 08:28

Not at all an ignorant question. Muslims are religious and don't celebrate christmas- I was simply asking if some other religion prevents the PP from celebrating christmas. No need to get on your high horse.

I struggle to think of the many many festivals that don't have links to religion- care to name a few?

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revivingshower · 13/12/2013 12:33

This just goes to show what happens when you seperate religious beliefs from any form of common sense. I think the two can co-exist, I know some people don't.
If you take the spiritual side (doesn't have to be christian but the loving gratefulness) out of Christmas, that is where the materialistic, over commercialism comes in, but if you go too far and get too puritan about it you suck out all the fun and joy. You have to have that balance and it is the same in a lot of religious things.

Riprap63 · 03/01/2014 21:53

Both my kids hate Father Xmas. They found him way too creepy. Tbh it's parents that get the most offended when my dc say he is not real.

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