My friend was baptised yesterday and it freaked me out

[Moomin]

I've known him for about 16 years and he's a top bloke. he was good mates with my ex but when we split up me and his mate kept in touch and we visit him and his family 4 or 5 times a year.

We arranged to visit this weekend a few weeks ago. last week he asked us if we'd be prepared to stay a bit longer than usual as he was getting baptised and he'd really like us to be there. I was a bit surprised to learn this, as he's always been very sceptical about organised religion - not an athiest as such but he'd tried a few churches and meetings out along the way all the time I've known him and nothing really appealed. His wife is a christian but doesn't attend church every week and is 'quiet' about her beliefs, iykwim.

it wasn't until we got to the church that we realised it was an evangelical church, and the whole thing took us completely by surprise. I've never been to an evangelical service before and to be very honest I hated it. My friend stood up to be 'questioned' as part of the service and to give a confirmation and it was like he was a different person. he then had a whole body submersion as the baptism.

I can't think why i found this all so shocking except perhaps that i am so shocked at the short time it's taken him to 'find God' (he's been going to this church since April) and just how much it's affected him. He goes to church twice on sundays now, a bible meeting every week after work and breakfast meetings with his church group too. I'm gobsmacked. but i'm also wondering why this should be so? he's very happy and i'm happy for him, so what's my problem? I feel shocked and, like i said in the title, very freaked out. I haven't been able to stop thinking about it since we got back. The service and the people made me feel very uncomfortable. why?

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Moomin - does that give you some reassurance that friendships can continue despite the challenges in cases like this

Think you have it bang on about friendships evolving - particularly ones that began before the kids were born and continued after! No end of differing opinions there, LOL

I think you should all feel sorry for my DH (non-Christian). When we got married, I believed in God but wasn't regularly attending church (long story). About 5 years ago I started going to church, but not every Sunday. Then about 18 months ago I started going every Sunday. Then about 6 months ago, I started thinking about training for Lay ministry (aka Reader). Now I've started my training course
To be fair, I don't ram it down his throat, but he's had to get used to a lot, with some of my free time being taken up with church and studying, and religious books lying everywhere, and he's hardly moaned at all (although he does think I'm having an affair with the Vicar ).

One thing I have noticed is that all the people I have met who are followers of a mainstream religion, be it CofE, Catholicism, Judaism, Islam, etc, etc, very rarely mention their beliefs to people they only know slightly. The same cannot always be said for those who are "born again" and for me personally I find that uncomfortable - I suppose in some ways it seems impolite (not saying you shouldn't be proud of your religion but isn't religion one of those things you are not supposed to discuss at dinner parties?!)

be it CofE, Catholicism, Judaism, Islam, etc, etc, very rarely mention their beliefs to people they only know slightly. The same cannot always be said for those who are "born again" and for me personally I find that uncomfortable

huh? I'm CofE and I'm 'born again' - you can be any denomination of Christianity and be 'born again' - it's not a select group......

oh and reading the OP and first few - we're a CofE church and have evangalists in our midst, I know of Catholic, CofE, Baptist, CofScotland and even Methodist evangelists - not 'reserved' to the non-denominational churches.

That's pretty much what I wanted to say QofQ (good to 'see' you, btw. You haven't been around much lately).

Is it too much to ask people to work out the difference between evangelism and evangelicalism, and ask them to use those terms correctly, too?

Go on then, what is the difference?

The word evangelicalism usually refers to a tendency in diverse branches of conservative Christianity, typified by an emphasis on evangelism, a personal experience of conversion, biblically-oriented faith, and a belief in the relevance of Christian faith to cultural issues. (usually can be applied to most of the non-denominational churches

The term 'evangelical', refers to anything implied in the belief that Jesus is the savior. The word comes from the Greek word for 'Gospel' or 'good news': ευαγγελιον evangelion, from eu- "good" and angel "message". To be evangelical would then mean to be merely Christian,

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Just quick hijack, wanted to say hello to HRH, haven't seen you around for ages.

I am a born again Christian! And to clarify what this actually means, and not what people generally judge it to be, that I have accepted that Jesus is my Lord and saviour through crucifixion and that all my sins are forgiven.

I am very sure of my faith (as that is just what it is, faith, wholehearted trust!) and I agree that might freak some people out. When something happens to show you that it is all real and God is really here, this is what happens!

Jesus' name is not the first thing to come out of my mouth when I first meet someone. The only time I really bring it up is if someone questions the way I live my life.

Just for the record... Its not Born Again Christians who are intent on blowing up the infidel!

i still don't get it. what branch of the church was it then? it was in a purpose-built building (in that it had the 'pool' for baptisms) but it was shaped like a scout-hut not like a 'traditonal' stone church. there were colourful banners up saying things like 'god loves you just the way you are', everyone was dressed casually and the two men leading the service were 'elders'. they referred to their church as the *[place] evangelical church. from what HRHQoQ said they would seem to be the evangelicalists but they didn't refer to themselves as such.

and btw why on earth would people naturally know the difference between the two things?! should i expect all posters to know about the different stages of the national curriculum if they post on an education thread? we post on here to find things out and share information and thoughts

Evangelism is the practice of sharing the good news of Jesus. Like mission, if you like. That's why you find people employed as Evangelists in all sorts of different churches. Getting the word out, basically.

Evangelical churches are pretty much as HRHQoQ describes. Tend to be fairly heavy on Bible teaching, so for example, you'd be far more likely to get a 45 minute sermon in an evangelical church than a liberal church.

Moomin, I imagine that the church you were in could well have been an independent evangelical church, possibly affiliated to a network of other similar churches.

I have no problem with people not knowing the difference between the 2 things until they start using them incorrectly on threads like these and muddying already complicated waters even further.

To clarify even more, given the impression I've formed from the thread here, Evangelical cannot be used as a label to mean 'happy-clappy'. That is charismatic. Charismatic evangelical churches exist (I go to one), but there is a whole sector of evangelical churches which do not subscribe to the charismatic elements at all, and are often called 'conservative evangelical'.

We've veered widely off course here now. Sorry. This is why I normally lurk rather than post on threads like these.

I'm sorry that you were made to feel uncomfortable by the church members the other day. Churches make a lot of effort to be welcoming to visitors, and can take a lot of flak if somebody manages to get in and out without being spoken to when they wanted to be. There's no easy way of differentiating between visitors who want to be chatted to, and visitors who don't, so sometimes we get it wrong.

A friend told me about an instance when her husband, dressed in his suit, was welcoming people at the church door. He spoke to a passerby who had paused at the entrance, asking if he would like to come to the meeting that was due to start. The passerby replied that he couldn't - 'because I don't have a suit'. From that point on, my friend's DH has only worn casual things - and still does the welcoming in thing. I found that thought provoking as I had been brought up to expect to wear 'Sunday Best' for church attendance.

Purpleturtle, understand your point about the friendliness/intrusive balance too. Suppose it is a positive thing that people show they care by chatting than saying nothing at all to the new faces.

yes i can see where you're coming from. there was someone on the door giving out order of services and shaking hands with everyone on the way in. and i suppose everyone was just doing their godly duty trying to talk to the likes of me, in finding out who i was and where i was from etc.

i just keep getting an cartoon image in my head of the wolf shaking the pig's hand and smiling whilst imagining what the pig will look like roasted and on a plate. .... but that's just me i guess! i can't help feeling cynical and guarded, as i'm not used to it and it made me feel very uncomfortable. i don't spose they meant any harm. i didn't feel one ounce of joy throughout though, not even when i saw how happy my friend was. i felt very confused and stifled.

LOL They wouldn't really want to roast you surely - you've been reading too many bedtime stories, Moomin

I would consider myself "born again" as well (I'm C of E).

People express themselves in different ways. I wouldn't feel happy making people feel uncomfortable, but lets face it, some people are more extrovert than others. I'm pleased for your friend, Moomin.

Moomin, you said you felt confused and stifled - do you feel any happier in yourself now you have had some time to think over the whole situation? Can be tricky knowing how to approach your next conversation with S and his wife.........perhaps saying you share their son's mixed feelings, which include learning new things about S whom you both thought you knew so well?

Good for you that you are exploring your feelings, because that is important as far as your friendship is concerned. Hope the weirdness of it all ebbs as you adjust to the change - and you are so right, change isn't easy for any of us!

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yes, have had a few dyas to get used to it now and though it still feels very strange and a bit surreal, i think he will be fine if i bring it up with him next time we speak. as he walked us out of the church on sunday and back to our car he asked me what i thought. and i genuinely couldn't think of anything good or bad to say, i was literally speechless. he laughed and said 'are you trying to be tactful? i guess you need to take it in and have a think about it.' and then i said i'd found it a bit strange and he said 'well it's certainly something to think about, maybe we can talk again soon when you've had some time'... so i guess he knows it's maybe a big thing to get your head round. i'll ring them up in a couple of weeks.

thanks so much for all posts about this, it's been really helpful

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