My friend was baptised yesterday and it freaked me out

[Moomin]

I've known him for about 16 years and he's a top bloke. he was good mates with my ex but when we split up me and his mate kept in touch and we visit him and his family 4 or 5 times a year.

We arranged to visit this weekend a few weeks ago. last week he asked us if we'd be prepared to stay a bit longer than usual as he was getting baptised and he'd really like us to be there. I was a bit surprised to learn this, as he's always been very sceptical about organised religion - not an athiest as such but he'd tried a few churches and meetings out along the way all the time I've known him and nothing really appealed. His wife is a christian but doesn't attend church every week and is 'quiet' about her beliefs, iykwim.

it wasn't until we got to the church that we realised it was an evangelical church, and the whole thing took us completely by surprise. I've never been to an evangelical service before and to be very honest I hated it. My friend stood up to be 'questioned' as part of the service and to give a confirmation and it was like he was a different person. he then had a whole body submersion as the baptism.

I can't think why i found this all so shocking except perhaps that i am so shocked at the short time it's taken him to 'find God' (he's been going to this church since April) and just how much it's affected him. He goes to church twice on sundays now, a bible meeting every week after work and breakfast meetings with his church group too. I'm gobsmacked. but i'm also wondering why this should be so? he's very happy and i'm happy for him, so what's my problem? I feel shocked and, like i said in the title, very freaked out. I haven't been able to stop thinking about it since we got back. The service and the people made me feel very uncomfortable. why?

yeah i guess i am a bit. If he'd always been a bit 'god-sqaddy' (hope i'm not being offensive, & hope you know what i mean) i'd be less shocked maybe. His wife is a christian, as i mentioned before and her mum is very devout, but it's never encroached negatively on anything we've ever done or discussed (when i say negatively i mean that it's never created any conflict of interests or she's disapproved of me or we've disagreed significantly on anything). she actually has said that she won't attend the church her mum attends as she prefers to find her own way to worship and pray. it's really never been as issue and we respect each other's views. I've actually had long conversations with her when i have been asking question about faith, etc and she's always been very honest and supportive and non-judgmental.

so i'd have been less surprised if it had been her that had discovered this evangelical way of being a christian in some ways, rather than him. He's alsways been so enquiring and so questioning, and he's well-known for play devil's advocate in conversations just to make you think of all the alternatives to a problem or situation. IT's almost like he's thought 'sod it! i'm fed up of questions, i just want one answer and if this fits the bill then so be it!'

i know it's not like that, but to choose this way of believing in god seems so definite and so immoveable - it's just not like him AT ALL. It's like he's put a full stop after all the arguing and wondering. I can't help but feel that it will change him and his outlook - how could it not, realistically? he hasn't chosen the 'quiet' route like his wife, he's done the absolute opposite!

I've been likening it to the situation pruni posted, like it's a person he's met, that he wants us all to love as much as he does, but to me it seems like he's brought a new girlfriend home but his wife's still there and i can't bring myself to be entirely happy about the whole situation, no matter how happy it makes him. I said last night i'm happy if he's ahppy but i guess i can't be if i'm honest, if i feel so weirded out by it all.

oh i also forgot to say - he revealed at his 'confirmations and questions' bit of the service that he can pinpoint to the minute when god 'found him'. he says he felt a presence, a light, a warmth come through him and he knew that god was there with him then.

my question would be - how come god didn't do that 5 or 10 years ago, how come it was just at the time he's been going to this church and speaking endlessly with the 'elders' of the church. it's like if you're susceptible to a situation, it will happen to you. (Or could it be argued that this is the way god 'finds' people??) it's such a minefield!

My dh's family are evangelists (not dh) and i'll never forget how terrifying I found it when I first went to their church for my sil's baptism. I was brought up a catholic but lapsed would probably describe me best. At first I didnt even realise that I was in a church and then when the umming and arm waving started i nearly ran for the door. I have since been to far freakier events with them and they don't fail to terrify me every time. I think they feel culty and it often feels like mass hysteria and brainwashing. I once went to an event over a few days and watched the crowd. On day one people were calm by day 3 people were speaking in tongues and what could only be descibed as fitting. each to their own but it's definetly not my cup of tea. now that dh's parents have died, there is only one of his six siblings that are still involved so I don't have to go anymore.

Very evangelical Christians can be hard to take at times, their insistance on bringing god into every conversation can verge on being rude if they know that you're not christian and/or evangelical.

However as others have said, you may find that his intensity tempers a little over time.

I don't think your shock is necessarily to do with his conversion - its just a natural reaction to a friend doing something that you consider to be out of character. If he had started fundraising for the communist party having previously not been very interested in politics, and you had gone to his first political rally, would you have felt equally uncomfortable with the idea?

lucy5 - how scary for you. i'm glad i'm not the only one who has freaked out. another question i have is this - why does it make me feel so upset if god is onvolved and 'god is love'? is it because they would say i'm a non-believer? my vicar is a complete believer but he doesn't scare anyone!! why does it have to be like this?

maybe if it was a completely different religion (with a 'different' god) i'd feel more positive. but because this is sposed to be the same god as the one in 'my' church i can't handle it?

suejonesz - i think the whole freakiness comes from what someone mentioned before: if it was the communist party, i'd maybe be a bit surprised but i'd be able to see why he was doing it because it relates to tangible goals and 'real' things like economics, living conditions, social order, etc. because this relates to something that I have not accepted really exists, and it operates in such a variety of understandings and 'truths', then i can't accept that he has chosen this to be the absolute, indisputable answer to everything (again, given the person he has always been)

I think the "scariness" of evangelising christians is very little to do with God and whther he is your kind of God or a different kind. I think it is the absolute certainty which is scary, that god is with them all the time, that they are/were visited by him etc - it doesn't always sit well with a traditional low-emotion, undemonstrative English approach to life in general and religion religion.

A friend is evangelical and I have no problem with her religion but when God spoke to her to tell her that her unborn child would be a son, I found that scary (her certainty, that is). As it transpired God was only kidding and she had a girl.

I think in our cross posts, we seem to get to the same point - ie the absoluteness of it.

I often used to argue with my mil, who basically said I was going to hell becuse i hadn't been reborn, yet for example if the yorkshire ripper was reborn he would go to heaven. I didnt like that her religon was based on fear. I also found it a very hypocritical faith, they were very holier than thou but would hide bottles of gin in their shopping trolley so nobody knew they were drinking. i found it a lot of words and not much action, their dd was outcast as the black sheep of the family and basically not helped in her hour of need except by us. Double standards or what. I suppose I know that I can go to hell with a clear conscience

This friend means a lot to you, so it is natural that you feel weirded out, it is a lot for you to take in. He has evidently thought deeply for a long while before coming to his decision on beliefs, which from what you say his DS and DW are fine with - even if his zeal for this new way is a lot for others to take in.

You are right to assume that he is likely to be a changed person, now, Moomin.

As with many other issues in life where friends hold opposing views - they can still be friends, just agree to disagree, or concentrate on their common ground. He sounds like a friend who has been there for you in your hard times of splitting with your ex. Hopefully he won't come on too strong with sharing his faith with you, but if that happens, you can just be honest and say you aren't comfortable with it and would rather talk about something else? Or maybe talking some things through with him will help you understand its importance to him?

Sorry, I got so caught up in my own rant I forgot about yours. It is possible to have a good relationship with someone with such differing views. We have a good relationship with my bil and sil, we steer clear of certain subjects, i'e they think mental illness is caused and passed on through promiscuous sex. We accept some god stuff as it is part of their daily life and they accept that we are (as they would class us) bohemian.

some excellent posts here - very thought-provoking. I almost feel like crying, which is a very selfish gesture on my part but i feel quite childish because i want the old S back!! It's obviously a wonderful, exciting new time for him and he's feeling better than he's done for a very long time but all i can think is that i want things the same as before. the new S scares me!!

i absolutely acknowledge that this is a purely selfish feeling; i spose it's to do with change, and we none of us like change very much. and if all this has made S happier then i have no right to complain. why do i feel almost bereaved then??? (I'm not saying i'm right to feel this, just being honest about how i do feel)

Sorry I'm sure you didn't mean to be funny, but pmsl at "they think mental illness is caused and passed on through promiscuous sex". I shall keep an eye on my deteriorating mental state as I was NOT a good girl at university

I think you have been very honest about how you feel (I know its easier online but I get the impression that you have been honest to others about this offline too?) and you should not be flamed for this. Whats more important, is how you treat him and his views and you seem to me to have threated them with respect.

FWIW I would feel exactly the same way as you. I hope that you can reconcile yourself to your new friend and can form as good a relationship as you had to the old one.

Hehehehehehe!

sorry Lucy5 - I have to ask - do they REALLY think that, seriously?

Moomin
Did you used to go out w/him? That would freak me! I'd remember the 'naughty' S and it would be hard to stiffle a giggle from time to time.

I'm afraid they do.

i laughed at that as well! in fact, that's the kind of thing that worries me - i hope to goodness his newly found beleifs don't stretch to guff like your in-laws, lucy5, but how will i cope if it does? if he really has committed to this in a full-on way (which i spose he has, hence the baptism) and that is one of the teachings they have at their church (and similar ones all about sex, metal illness, etc etc) surely he will be concerned for us if he feels we're 'sinning'?? given the rigidity of this branch of the church and the absolute belief in the bible, how could he not be worried if he thinks we're all off to hell in a handcart?

I think i need to talk to him/his wife. I will not be able to cope if he tries to save me! i know i mught be assuming a lot, but isn't that what evagelism is all about? in his conformations he promised to 'spread the word'.

no, expat, i didn't go out with him. he was good mates with my ex. we've never been anything remotely other than good mates

lol at metal illness. mental

Whew, Moomin! Cuz let me tell you, that'd be awkward!

I had a one night stand w/a VERY hot man once. Then about six months later he showed up at my door and tried to convert me. Said I could be a 'virgin' again. Yeah, right!

Anyhoo, I'm definitely going to hell b/c I let him talk me up and then I got him to be sinful with me again. And again. And again.

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Oh dear, Pruni - what became of your friendship after that?