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Original poster

Living in an atheist world

161 replies

fifi669 · 24/10/2013 19:21

Anyone else find it difficult at times? My faith is unfaltering. I just find other peoples attitudes a bit draining sometimes.

I had a woman at work taking the piss out of Christians to me so I told her I was one. She looked at me like I had two heads. (She'd obviously not noticed the crucifix).

Constant stupid questions such as do you believe in the tooth fairy too? Come about once religion is mentioned. Sigh.

Unless asked a relevant question I keep my faith to myself and don't shove it in peoples faces. I don't see why people can't do the same with their atheism.

OP posts:
loopydoo · 24/10/2013 22:19

Exactly sweet kitty.

ravenAnyKucker · 24/10/2013 22:19

I think I'd swap.

Get rid of statutory religious observance in publically funded state schools, discrimination in allocating schools which are again publically funded but which exclude my children, bishops in the House of Lords, etc etc...

...& you can take the piss out of my Darwin Fish earrings.

Deal? Grin.

(I don't actually own any DF earrings, btw. But I'll get some so that Xtians can laugh at them, if it helps).

loopydoo · 24/10/2013 22:20

sonly, I realise that Jesus might have existed however, I just don't feel the need to put one person up there above all else and worship them.

EricLovesAnyFucker · 25/10/2013 06:24

I have faith in lots of things! I have a moral code, string ethics, and I actually believe that we should try to live good lives for our own sakes and to live fulfilled, spiritually rich lives rather than because we don't want to get in trouble after we die. Human beings have a 'spirit' which needs feeding and nurturing, I just don't believe that spirit was created by a higher being nor will it continue to exist after we die. I believe it's a facet of the human mind and a result of our advanced evolution.

EricLovesAnyFucker · 25/10/2013 06:25

And we really don't live in an atheist world. I don't mind that, I quite like religion, but it's everywhere.

LightminTheQueem · 25/10/2013 06:44

Sorry about your work colleague OP. It sounds like she is intolerant and unpleasant. I'm an atheist and have several Christian friends and acquaintances, most of whom are very accepting of our differences in perspective (not sure how else to put it as it's not a difference in belief to me). But I have been told I'm going to hell etc. by some and while that has no meaning for me it's a clear indication of disrespect and IMO not appropriate to say it. We believe that different things are facts, and that is just how it is.

Agree with pp about religion in schools though, I do feel there shouldn't be worship at school and it makes me sad that my atheist friend's son will have to go to a faith school or have a long walk to get to a community school because of where they live.

DoctorTwo · 25/10/2013 07:03

sonlypuppyfat Thu 24-Oct-13 22:16:51

Jesus is an historical figure. He's written about in Roman books.

Which ones? Genuine question, I'd be interested to read them.

sonlypuppyfat · 25/10/2013 07:07

Don't think you'd find them in waterstones

Gingerdodger · 25/10/2013 08:24

It can be difficult to be open about faith as it sometimesdoes give others preconceived ideas about what that means for us as an individual (not unreasonable we all do that all the time based sometimes on limited knowledge).

I've personally found that a balance for me is to be open about my faith but not being first thing I whose to talk about with someone new it just sort of comes out over time.

If someone has genuine questions then to answer as honestly as possible. If someone wants to pick a fight to accept there are areas where we need to agree to disagree and move on.

By far the most powerful thing about faith though is those people who you can see openly living by Christian loving values.

So I agree that it can make you seem really isolated to be a practising Christian but I generally find that most people just accept it as part of you once they realise you are just an ordinary person getting on with your life as best you can, just as they are. So the people who think it's weird (and those who think by definition that makes you weird) will continue to think it but I have also had people with no faith say to me they wished they had it, so in a small way an open practise of faith may help others to explore their own.

curlew · 25/10/2013 09:05

"Don't think you'd find them in waterstones"

Don't worry, I have access to other book shops. Just give me a couple to titles..."

1919 · 25/10/2013 10:24

Whilst it is obviously not polite to openly ridicule someones faith (something which many people feel inextricably bound to), I do think the sort of reaction you are witnessing from non theists is understandable and even reasonable given the nature of your belief claims and the position of religion in society.
Many atheists value skeptical thought and reason and so any belief based upon faith is likely to be viewed as absurd. It is seemingly ok to question or dismiss another's taste in music or art if it differs from one's own but somehow religious belief is out of bounds and the issue must be skirted around for fear of offense. Belief in the supernatural without empirical evidence is an extraordinary position to contemplate for people who do not regard faith as a virtue (in the recent sense of the word).
This difference in beliefs would be less of an issue if religion did not hold such a privileged position in the world. As others have mentioned, we are far from living in an atheist world for a myriad of reasons (and not all atheists would want to live in an atheistic world anyway). Contrary to what you might believe, atheists and non theists are not trying to 'recruit', deny your rights to have faith or strip it away from you. I do not care if other people have religious belief or faith but as a non religious secular humanist, I would like to live in a country that doesn't place religion in a privileged position or discriminate on the basis of religious belief. Unfortunately this is not currently the case.
Of course you are not obliged to defend your faith or discuss it with anyone if you do not wish to but I think it's perfectly reasonable for others to reject your beliefs and the foundations of your faith if you choose to do so. It may not be polite or the 'done thing' but so what?

To those who are justifying their Christianity on the basis that Jesus was written about in Roman books, there is a theory that -if I understand correctly and in very simplistic terms- Christianity was invented as a political tool in order to passify the Roman empire. Even if Jesus did actually exist, this doesn't prove the existence of God so it's a bit of a weak justification of belief in the supernatural.

curlew · 25/10/2013 10:35

"By far the most powerful thing about faith though is those people who you can see openly living by Christian loving values."

Forgive me- but are you likely to have your beliefs changed by seeing me openly living my life by loving non Christian values? No? Then why do you think I might be changed by you?

Habbibu · 25/10/2013 10:40

Well, I'm an atheist, but I'd have thought your source of strength if you feel got at would be the Sermon on the Mount. When I was at Catholic school, we were taught to welcome struggle as part of the faith. Clearly I chose a different path, but I am surprised this isn't quoted more in threads like this.

acorntree · 25/10/2013 12:16

I'm a catholic - but I would agree with Habbibu...

Also I wonder if the difference in prevailing culture now, to how it was a generation or so ago, is that people are more honest and open about what they believe - for example, my grandparents would have claimed to be Christian, but I don't ever remember them going to church (except to attend weddings), and they weren't married in a church themselves. My DH is similar - he would acknowledge that culturally he is broadly Christian through upbringing - he celebrates (a secular version of) Christmas for example - but he would describe himself as an agnostic cum atheist.

It is more challenging now - but if that reflects more honesty, I don't think it is a necessarily bad thing.

headinhands · 25/10/2013 13:04

'Christian loving values'

And these might be? And these differ from non Christians how?

msmiggins · 25/10/2013 13:07

It's about time the tables were turned. Nice to see christians getting a taste of their own medicine.

worldgonecrazy · 25/10/2013 13:21

If you Christians think you have it bad, may I suggest that you spare a thought for myself and my fellow pagans. I can tolerate the ludicrous accusations of satanism and baby murder - those are stupid enough to be laughed off. What I cannot stand are the societal beliefs about paganism.

We all have dreadlocks or badly dyed hair.
We have no fashion sense.
We never wash.
We never hold down a "proper" job.
We have no morals.

It's not a "proper" religion/spiritual path.

etc. etc. etc.

Habbibu · 25/10/2013 13:22

I don't think it's nice to see anyone persecuted for their beliefs, so long as those beliefs don't impact others negatively. I would much rather schools were truly secular, with no worship requirement, and that the church and state were not connected at all, but beyond that think a life and let live approach is the most beneficial as a whole.

Fugacity · 25/10/2013 13:23

OP,

I think it is easier if you are completely open about your faith and not in any way reticent.

If having small talk of what you did at the weekend, be open about going to church, and be happy to talk about going to a home group or bible study. Yes, some people will think you are weird, but not if they encounter more Christians.

You can be ready with simple apologetics, even if this doesn't come naturally to you.

As for tooth fairy references, bat them back. It is far more likely that they worship the tooth fairy than you.

One of my favourite verses from Scripture is from Joshua 24:15
"But as for me and my household, we will serve the Lord.”

I just can't worry too much about what other people think.

Fugacity · 25/10/2013 13:29

Christians have always been persecuted for their beliefs. This is not a new thing. Paul warned us of this, so it is as old as Christianity itself.

JeanPaget · 25/10/2013 14:10

Curlew I think sonlypuppy fat was talking about references to Jesus in the writings of Josephus and Tacitus.

Tactius mentions Jesus in Annals, book 15, chapter 44.

Josephus - Antiquities of the Jews has two references to Jesus in Books 18 and 20 and a reference to John the Baptist in Book 18.

sonlypuppyfat · 25/10/2013 14:12

Thank you JeanPagent

headinhands · 25/10/2013 14:24

Having your beliefs challenged is not persecution, someone making a snide comment about church attendance is rude but not persecution. Persecution is the inflicting of suffering, harassment, isolation, imprisonment, fear, or pain.

msmiggins · 25/10/2013 14:27

I haven't seen many christians being percecuted recently. Your Paul may have warned you but it's that information a bit outdated?