Extremes of Catholicism...anyone good on this?

[Rooners]

Hi,

I hope I'm not intruding or going to offend anyone with this post. I could use some help or advice.

My Mum is lovely. She's so so kind and tries very hard to be supportive to me and my children, and everyone else.

She had a form of OCD and it's kind of got muddled up with her religion. She turned Catholic when I was little, possibly before I was born in fact and she wasn't too 'full on' with it though we went to church and so on.

In the last few years she has got very serious about it and it's becoming quite difficult to work around her requests.

For example, she has now said she doesn't approve of anyone doing any work on a Sunday - well that's Ok, that's a fairly usual belief...but this includes me working on the chicken run (needs a new door and some stuff) or looking at anything on the computer, and the other day I asked if she could print me off an attachment from an email and she said she wouldn't until Monday - it was very nice of her to do it anyway but I felt awful for having asked iyswim?

It is so complicated, I'm trying to take her at face value, she's my Mum and I love her. And I believe in her but I think she is over-concerned, maybe she isn't, I don't know. Separating the illness from the faith is very hard for her, she says that. She knows she is ill but not where to draw the line.

But I feel almost set up, so that everything I say or do is now not acceptable to her. We showed her a bit of a funny film the other week, and she said why was everyone swearing in it - I said I didn't notice any? She said 'they were saying the G word', as in God.

I hadn't even noticed that but she insisted. Again, I had offended her without thinking.

It's horrible. I feel like she is getting her reassurance out of making me look crap, in a way. I already feel rubbish about myself.

Does anyone Catholic have a perspective on this please because I really don't know what to make of it.

I don't think Catholicism is the issue. Is she receiving any assistance for her mental health problems?

Oh also my parents asked me to ebay a lot of stuff my late Grandparents left, as they were struggling with it. I took loads of it here, photographed it and listed it and then she said, Oh but you're doing it on a Sunday...and I said well ebay works like that, I have to answer questions even if I don't list on Sundays. Or no one will buy anything.

She then said she and Dad (who does what she says basically) had decided I shouldn't list anything else on ebay.

I mean I just feel so down about it, I thought I was helping but now it seems even that was no good.

Thanks Scurry. No. She had a sad childhood and had OCD since then really, in different ways, but had psychotherapy for years and years in between when religion didn't really come into it.

Then she stopped therapy and then all this began.
She is seeing someone for spiritual guidance is the latest thing, but she won't believe anything they say if it isn't utterly extreme.

I also don't think this is a Catholicism issue. Catholics do all sorts of things on a Sunday. Converts are often more fervent. .could her priest offer support?

Hi, I'm a traditional Catholic. That means I attend mass in Latin but I'm still part of the main Catholic Church.
So my understanding of work on Sunday is this: work shouldn't be done on Sunday, really I mean work that a person is paid for. Something like doing your garden would be ok, as long as it was for leisure and enjoyment.
So I would think that if you enjoy working on the Chicken run then it would be ok but if you saw it as work then it's a no. Saying that if the chickens were going to escape them of course it's ok for fix the run. My Mum called it 'donkey in the ditch' scenario. If you owned a donkey and it fell in a ditch on a Sunday you wouldn't leave it there. You would get it out of the ditch even if it was a Sunday. That's why it's ok for nurses to work. It's essential work.
But it does sound like your Mums OCD is rather wrapped up in this too. Maybe she should seek clarification from herr parish priest. He might be helpful.
As for the G word! Well it really hate it when I hear people saying 'oh my God' it's quite offensive to me as Gods name should only be used with reverence so I can see your Mums pov on that. It's really hard sometimes when a member of the family develops a really strong faith, or conversely loses their faith. But it sounds like you are a very caring daughter who just wants the best for you Mum.

Thankyou both. We did have a fairly full and frank discussion about it, as yes the chickens are not presently fully enclosed, and are in some peril from a fox (landlord wants to dismantle their shed to build a new one, as it is falling down, and so they are having to have some adaptations to the walk in run that joins it, before it's taken away!)

I can only do this work on a Sunday as that is the day they come and play with the children / hold the baby for two hours. The rest of the week I have no help.
I guess I can see the POV from the religious perspective but it feels like I represent 'evil' to her sometimes - you know, she sees what I am doing as the enemy, that she has to prove herself against and I am breaking all her rules.

I don't wish to offend her. I just have very little option, I guess that's why having children (or chickens) out of wedlock is a bad idea in the first place but I didn't mean to end up on my own.

I feel bad when someone says OMG as well. I try and say goodness or gosh instead but to Mum even that is all wrong. There is seemingly no limit to it, she will take it as far as she can.

Perhaps because she is trying to prove something, it is her rock and to that end she must rely and depend on it wholly, or she is in danger of something. She fears God's wrath, fears for my eternal soul.

She can't accept gifts from me, she always finds a way that they are wrong - I bought her a crucifix last year and that wasn't any good. It's like the nearer she gets to God, the further away she pushes me and everyone else.

Sometimes I think that is what it's about

I'm also a catholic (not a very good one to be honest!) and grew up in a catholic family in a catholic country, have a lot of control issues myself, and it sounds to me like your mum is using it as an excuse to generate extra rules for herself to live by as part of her OCD?
And I can see why you feel set up to fail - so they expect you to sit there doing nothing while they visit when they know it is time you could use to do things? Why don't they come on a Saturday then so that you get useful help?

What does your mum think about priests, altar boys/girls etc working on a Sunday?

Or doctors, firefighters, police etc.

Although I guess there's probably no point for you to challenge her as it sounds like she is not looking to have a rational debate

I don't think 'Oh my God' is bad. I've heard priests say similar. 'Oh Christ!' or 'Jesus Christ!' though - not OK

Agree with everyone else that Catholicism isn't really the issue. I suppose the number of rules you can potentially stick to (rosary, confession before mass etc.) could be picked up on by someone with OCD and used to justify the disorder.

Yes it is knowing where to draw the line between the OCD and the faith, I think.

I don't know, myself. I had the convo about priests and necessary services and so on - she said maybe it's Ok if they do the 'rest and pray' thing on a different day instead.

She said this was Ok for me, too, initially but then said she was still thinking about it. I just carried on hammering as I had no option really
They sometimes come on a Saturday but it keeps changing because she keeps being involved with church functions and playing organ and so on, also Dad has tutorials etc on a Saturday sometimes so they come when they are free.

They want to help, but yes I do feel set up to fail - same with lots of areas really, not just the religious thing. I have always felt like she does this in many ways. Like I am her Dorian Grey, sort of thing, so she can be outstanding and I'm the loser.

I might be totally wrong on that, I know it wouldn't be conscious if she was.

That sounds more like hardline Scots Calvinism to be honest. Like in the Outer Isles where you are not allowed to surf i.e. do anything fun on a Sunday and so on. My understanding was that commerce and trade was not allowed on the day or rest.

Disclaimer: not Catholic :)

I'm sorry your mum is ill. That sounds hard, and you obviously love her a lot

I do Hester, I just feel so hurt by it and not sure if I should.

She actually wants to be a saint. She told me. Or to behave like one iyswim.

This isn't Catholicism in any form I recognise OP and I was brought up in a very devout family.

I think maybe you need to separate your mum's actions and beliefs and how you want to live your life though. What would happen if you said to your Mum something like Mum I really respect your beliefs but I feel quite comfortable with fixing the chicken run on a Sunday and I'd like you to respect that too?

You probably aren't going to be able to change your mum's behaviour but you can think about how you react to it. (I speak from years of experience of dealing with my MIL who also has MH issues that at times make her extremely difficult to deal with, so I do empathise)

Thankyou so much Shoe.

I do the things I'm doing, and I justify it to her if I can but I don't want to have to do that if she is just being OCD as I am just enabling it then.

She does let me get on with it - but she will make a big point of not taking part, like the thing with the printer. I mean using a printer, it's domestic work surely...I don't know. She seems to take requests or information from me as things to challenge, in order to prove to me/herself/God that she is doing things right and I'm not.

I sometimes feel like not seeing her any more but to be frank, I need her, and I need Dad - I have no other support so going to the hospital or dentist etc would be impossible. And I would miss them. They are great in many ways. But I am finding this very trying.

Rooners, this sounds like a very difficult situation for you. I am not clear if you are Catholic yourself, because if you are not I don't see how your mum can be holding you to her own internal religious standards. I am Catholic and I love my faith but it is definitely NOT about rules, as someone else said up-thread that is actually more Calvinist in tone. First, God is merciful, Jesus said "The Sabbath in made for man, man is not made for the Sabbath" i.e. the purpose to to give us a rest and time to contemplate God, but not an enforced rule-bound rest!! I think you, rather than your mum may be the one who should talk to a kind and understanding priest to help you put some boundaries around what is your mum's personal behavior rather than what is required of us by the church. A relationship with Christ should bring us the fruit of peace, joy and contentment - it would in no way produce being tied into knots by rules, fear or anxiety.

I think it's understandable that her faith could be an outlet for her OCD because it's easier for her to divide everything into black and white categories. You may have heard of "Religious Scruples" or "Scrupulosity" which is exactly what you describe your mum suffering from, an obsessive worrying of the conscience that is a result of OCD and not anything engineered by or encouraged by the church. An experienced priest will have dealt with people suffering in this manner so I would approach someone and discuss what you are experiencing with your mum with them.

I understand how you must be feeling, my dad had bi-polar and it was often hard for me to try and discern what was due to his illness, what was due to his personality and what was due to pure bloody-mindedness! Whether they mean to or not metal illness can become a way that children are manipulated by their parents - intentionally or unintentionally.

Find an approachable priest or nun and discuss this issue with them, I'm sure they will have good advice on steps to take - they may be able to help your mum or talk to her spiritual director.

I'll keep you and your mum and family in my prayers.