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Philosophy/religion

Join our Philosophy forum to discuss religion and spirituality.

Is there such a thing as a non religious church?

21 replies

JimmyCorkhill · 16/09/2013 21:28

I really like everything about church apart from the believing in God bit which is kind of important!
My friend is a practising Christian and I love the sound of her church community.

I like the idea of belonging somewhere (neither my partner nor I have supportive families or wide friendship circles, we do feel quite insular and lonely).
I like the idea of dressing smartly and going somewhere on a Sunday as a family.
I like the idea of a sermon that makes you consider your behaviour /thoughts/actions.
I like the idea of being able to share your worries.
I like the idea of helping others.
We live so privately that we often feel forgotten when things are hard. And I often feel that I view life from a warped perspective as I have nothing to compare it to.
More and more often I feel like joining a church and get quite excited at the thought, but the sticking point is the actual faith part. I wish there was a community that offered all the parts of a regular church but maybe did motivational talks instead of sermons.

I told my DD the story of Noah's Ark when it was hammering down with rain yesterday, and I panicked about mentioning God. I realised that I didn't know what to say to her if she asked about him. She didn't, but it made me sad. I was raised as a Christian and went to church till I was about 9. I feel like I have had the option to pick and choose religion but I'm denying her that luxury.
My partner feels in a similar way to me but is much more of an atheist. I think I'm what's called agnostic. I do find myself talking to 'someone' when I'm worried or scared, and I make sure that I thank this 'someone' when things have gone well/I've had a lucky escape etc.
I think as a SAHM I'm more lonely than my partner though, so the sense of belonging somewhere is more pressing for me. I do think we could both do with knowing how lucky we are though as we have both become quite negative recently. I also want to provide my DC with a community as I feel they have been dealt a poor hand extended family wise.
Anyway, sorry for the waffly post but I would appreciate any thoughts/suggestions. Is this my way of seeking a faith? Or is there a church type world without a specific god?

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OiVaVoi · 16/09/2013 21:36

Are you in London, Bristol or Brighton? How about the Sunday Assembly? It's basically godless church. I'm a bit sceptical about their 'hymns' - they sing upbeat poppy songs as far as I know, which could be incredibly cringemaking, then there's a talk/ sermon, maybe on the beauty of science or whatever. Seems really interesting and might meet your needs...

OiVaVoi · 16/09/2013 21:38

Alternatively there are always the Quakers, though I personally wouldn't be able to cope with all that silence.

JimmyCorkhill · 16/09/2013 21:44

I am in Bristol - woohoo! I'll look into the Sunday Assembly, thank you Grin.

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Tuo · 16/09/2013 23:19

Hello Jimmy. I'm glad that OiVaVoi has given you something to look into. I'm going to make a very tentative alternative suggestion... You ask at the end of your post 'Is this my way of seeking a faith?', and the answer to that is, of course, that I don't know (and I suspect you don't really know yet), but it might be... and there is one way to find that out, which is to explore the possibility a bit more.

You list lots of things about attending church that appeal to you, and you have a friend who goes. Why not just go along with her for a few weeks and give it a try. There is not 'admission test' on the door to find out if you're 'holy enough' to get in. No-one will question you as to why you're there. And no-one will 'magically know' that you don't really consider yourself a Christian.

About three years ago I was in a similar position to you. I went to church as a child, but stopped in my teens and had been agnostic for years and years, although always attracted to the idea of church but just unable to make that 'leap of faith'. I went back for reasons that ostensibly had nothing to do with any kind of 'search for God', although I can see now that I was absolutely searching for something at a very fundamental, but very hidden level. I was in a foreign country, my DDs were at a church school, I wanted to fit in and meet people, and I wanted my DDs to understand something about Christianity, even if only for 'cultural' reasons (understanding art and literature...). I started going to church feeling absolutely petrified that someone would 'see through me', that they'd know I was 'faking it'; that I'd do the wrong thing and show myself up... But it was fine; I stopped feeling so nervous; and then I started to enjoy it; and then it started to speak to me on a deeper level; and... well... here I am.

Now, that's just my story, and it may not go like that for you. But even if if doesn't, what have you lost? You like the sound of church, and you know what some of the positives are... The negative side is that you'd be 'faking it', like I was at the start. But you don't have to say or do anything you're uncomfortable with. And if you hate it, you don't have to go back. But if you don't give it a chance then you might never find out if this is, on some level, your way of seeking faith (some might say 'the way in which God is speaking to you' ) or not.

My own experience is that it is absolutely worth giving it a try. I am so happy with my rediscovered faith, and really feel that I have 'come home'. Whether it's at church or not, I hope you find what you're looking for.

JimmyCorkhill · 17/09/2013 09:32

Thanks Tuo. My friend would be more than happy for me to tag along. She has offered this in the past. You're right, it's the 'faking it' part that's holding me back.

I suppose as well that I'm a bit scared that I will get into the religious aspects. It's silly but I said to my DP after writing this post, 'don't worry, I'm not getting all religious on you" as if that's something silly or bad. I don't know why I feel that way Confused.

I'm just worn out doing it alone and crave some sort of support system. I'm scared to try it but that's obviously what I need to do. You've given me a lot to think about!

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HilaryM · 17/09/2013 09:36

I would look into Unitarian Universalism.

www.unitarian.org.uk/index.shtml

Ragwort · 17/09/2013 09:39

I agree with Tuo - jsut go along and enjoy what there is to offer. I do have a faith but in over 30 years of church attending I doubt if anyone has really asked me 'what do you believe?' Grin. I love listening to the sermons as so often these days you don't get the opportunity to really hear a good speaker and have the chance to explore views and opinions.

As Tuo says, there is no 'admission criteria' - everyone is welcome.

Years ago my Grandmother used to attend church regulary, she used to say 'I don't believe any of it but the people are friendly and the cakes are nice' Grin.

The sense of community and 'belonging' that you get from being part of a Church family is wonderful and has helped me through some difficult times, just as I hope I have helped others - now off to help at an old folks lunch at our church this morning Grin. On another practical basis our local churches have set up a food larder, yes, I know non-church organisations could easily do this ...... but how often do they?

MoaningMingeWhingesAgain · 17/09/2013 09:48

interesting ideas here. I am firmly atheist, but I too envy the sense of community and comfort people get from their church. Apart from the God part I would be a pretty good ChristianGrin I sometimes think- I make dinners and cakes for my elderly neighbour, do voluntary work, I really like our local vicarSmile

TheYamiOfYawn · 17/09/2013 09:54

I go to a Unitarian church, and it is lovely. I'd say that around half the congregation are liberal Christians who would feel at home in a C of E environment. The rest are mostly a mix of atheists, agnostics and pagans.

We have hymns and prayers, but they tend to be phrased in such a way that everyone's concept of divinity (including "it's all made up") is covered.

Some of the more modern hymns are amusingly PC, but I quite like that.

filee777 · 17/09/2013 09:56

The Quakers don't believe in a set God, they just want a space to connect in their own way and use their connection to change the world in little ways

They are quite amazing.

TheYamiOfYawn · 17/09/2013 09:58

Just to add, being an atheist is not just tolerated, it's seen as a perfectly fine religious view. There are atheist ministers.

AnnieLobeseder · 17/09/2013 10:01

I'm also an atheist, but a Jewish one and I do go to synagogue, one of the main reasons being the wonderful sense of community.

While religion certainly has many, many faults, the bringing together of communities, mutual support and feeling of belonging is something I think society today is sorely missing.

So I understand where you're coming from OP. And as others have said, no-one will know, or even care, what you personally believe if you start to attend a church of any kind you choose!

FantasticDay · 17/09/2013 10:01

Unitarians! I go to a lovely unitarian church (which has the distinction of being the first in the country to conduct a civil partnership on religious premises!). It's non-credal, like Quakers, but I always used to find my mind wandering towards lunch in quaker meetings, so prefer the structure of a more 'traditional' service. I class myself as a Christian, but one of the regular preachers I know is more interested in Buddhism, and our lay minister calls herself a humanist.

JimmyCorkhill · 17/09/2013 10:17

Wow Grin. Thank you for all your replies. I'm so pleased you get the 'craving a community' part. I did wonder if I was being selfish, wanting the benefits without doing the 'work' eg. believing in God. I am going to do a lot of investigating.

Ragwort Grin at your Grandma!

I do like the idea of the Quakers but don't know if that's because I'm a SAHM and the idea of silence is sooooo appealing! Also, how do children fit in?

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Tuo · 17/09/2013 23:59

I like the sound of Ragwort's grandma! Grin

Jimmy... I do really understand how you feel, having been in a very similar position not so long ago, and I am happy to talk more about my experiences, but only if you want me to, so I'll try not to go on and on now.

I think you need to ask yourself what you're worried will happen to you if you 'get' religion. How do you think it might change you? And why do you think that might be a bad thing? I'm not trying to be provocative, and you don't need to answer the questions here on the thread... I'm just reflecting some of my own thinking back at you really. I still believe in all the things that I believed in before I believed in God - I believe in social justice, and equal rights, I believe in gay marriage, I still consider myself a feminist - it's just that now I also believe in God. But that gives the wrong impression because it makes it sound as if God were separate from all that other stuff, whereas for me, God is absolutely at the centre of all that - not least, in the commandment to love one's neighbour as oneself. I don't think that becoming a Christian has made me a boring person (at least no more boring than I was before which was pretty boring actually now I come to think of it ), and it hasn't made me into a po-faced killjoy. But it has made me happier than before, more peaceful than before, happier in my own skin, more fulfilled, more (not less) questioning, more focused, more aware of those around me. It has changed me, for sure; but for the better.

As for the 'faking it' element - remember you don't have to join in with anything you're not happy with. It's absolutely fine to just observe, reflect, listen... and then go for cake.

Wishing you all the best....

JimmyCorkhill · 18/09/2013 09:25

Thanks Tuo. I feel excited by all these responses, like something amazing is just around the corner for me.

Everything you say rings so true for me - yes, I have a childish notion of religion = boring and po -faced.

I also assumed I would get questioned about my intentions if I just turned up to a church but you've put my mind at ease about that.

Thanks for sharing your experience - it has really helped.

I think I need to try out some services and see how it makes me feel (like Margaret in Judy Blume's book!)

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Tuo · 18/09/2013 13:41

Good luck, Jimmy. I will be thinking about you (and praying in a non-po-faced way Grin). I am excited for you... Let us know how it goes.

JimmyCorkhill · 18/09/2013 16:39
Grin
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prairiegirl81 · 19/09/2013 22:04

I was also going to suggest the Unitarians. Bristol has two Unitarian congregations, one in the centre and one in Frenchay. You can find out more about UK Unitarians on their website.

www.unitarian.org.uk/index.shtml

Good luck in your search! x

prairiegirl81 · 19/09/2013 22:04

Ooops, just realised someone already posted that link, sorry x

JimmyCorkhill · 20/09/2013 10:50

That's okay Prairie. Thanks for suggesting it. It does sound like what I'm looking for Smile.

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