Should Christians be hated?

[plaingirly]

Random question! I opened my Bible on Matthew 10 and verse 22 says :

And all nations will hate you because you are my followers. But everyone who endures to the end will be saved.

I think there is another verse similar but can't remember it.

So if someone is really a follower of Jesus will people hate them and if people don't hate them are they not strong enough in their faith?

I don't really want to be hated! Also at work we have to get along with people so having them hate us wouldn't be ideal. Unless the verses are more specific or maybe aimed at the disciples.

I guess for me an imperfect example might be when I say to my child - 'Brush your teeth or I won't let you go out to play' or when I say 'I love you to bits'.

Yes but you have decided its a supernatural book about a supernatural being that is supposedly in contact with the people who worship him, and yet he allows them to come to wildly different conclusion because the text is so open to misinterpretation. And I will use my reasoning to look at that and decide it suggests the whole thing is man made because the god who would be behind such a set up is, at best foolish and at worst, likes a family punch up.

What is the alternative for you headinhands I don't want to derail the thread so please feel free to pm me or reply elsewhere if you prefer. Apology for taking up so much thread time!

The alternative is to understand that the Bible is not the word of God.

I learned this in RE. Google the icthus (the fish) Christians used to draw one half and another Christian another to identify eachover as they were hated at the time. It represents Christian suffering which is no longer happening.

Good grief, any religion that preaches hatred is to be avoided!

"So how do you decide what's metaphorical and what's literal?"

You have to decide what you think makes the most sense, in the context of what Jesus taught. As a liberal and not a fundamentalist, I see taking little tiny bits of the Bible out of context as less useful than the value of the overall message.

You're certainly not the first to ask the question. There are various considerations, such as how the original audience would have understood a story (for example they'd have known in some of the parables which current affairs were being referred to), or going to back to the original texts to check the grammar and translation, how it fits in with the rest of the Bible (if Jesus says something that makes no sense, like hating your family, he's making one of his provocative comments to make people think, as his other teaching wouldn't make sense if this were taken literally).

When is a question rhetorical?

So how come there are 4000+ denominations if it's that simple? Why would god rely so heavily on humans translating his message accurately seeing how fallen we are according to the same bible? You might well think you have stumbled across the definitive translation via prayer etc but what about the millions of others who have come to a different translation via the same method?

Great post thermalsinapril.

catmint I don't think Christianity preachers hatred but the word is mentioned in the Bible. Yes Pedro it I'd always an option to not believe the Bible is the word of God. I do believe it is. I just wondered what other ways there were of interpreting it. headinhands I just wondered what you thought.

vavavoom that is really interesting about Christians drawing half the fish each. I have never heard of that before. Sadly lots of Christians do still suffer for there faith in many places, like north Korea, where I am sure many other people of all faiths and none suffer terribly.

I just wondered what other ways there were of interpreting it.

There are almost infinite ways of interpreting the bible depending on which bits you take as literal and which bits you take as metaphorical.

I think it's actually extremely arrogant to think that you are capable of deciding what God's message actually was through your interpretation of the text. What gives you the right to decide what is provocative comment and what is an instruction to follow.

The argument that Jesus' overall message was not consistent with the suggestion to take the sword to your family is to assume that the bible is consistent with itself, that it is the word of God and that it is historically accurate. It's quite clearly none of these things.

like north Korea, where I am sure many other people of all faiths and none suffer terribly.

Dictatorial regimes like North Korea have significant parallels with religion. In fact, in NK they even have a worshiped leader who's dead. Personally, I see very little difference.

So how come there are 4000+ denominations if it's that simple?

You missed off an 0 - it's about 40,000 give or take

Most Christians completely ignore most of what Jesus taught. I don't blame them, I would too. The advice is largely rubbish.

Agreed, Ellie. It's surprising how few bible verses are ever actually quoted when you look at them. I used to think that Christians just had an incredible aptitude for reciting chapters and verses, but turns out they only need a few different ones which support their view on their faith.

For the record, my favourite is Deuteronomy 23.

it isn't preaching hatred, just implying that when you follow christ you tend to stand apart from the 'world' and may go against the flow of the crowd. sometimes people don't always 'get' you and you can't always fit in.

VAVAVOOM, I'm afraid there's plenty of evidence that Christians are among the most persecuted religious groups in the world today. Perhaps 200 million Christians in China, India, Indonesia, and the Middle East daily suffer discrimination, abuse and sometimes outright government repression or even 'cleansing' (as in Syria). I can post some links if you'd like to look at the evidence for yourself.

Here on Mumsnet we have the same few tireless anti-Christian posters, who congregate around any Christina thread. They are voluble and they can seem more numerous than they are.

CHRISTIAN thread. Sorry!

What good is evidence of persecution in relation to the truth of the religion?

Eh? I was responding to VAVOOM's over-optimistic remark.

Pedro there is plenty of historical evidence that the church has committed atrocities in the past and that individuals in His's name have done terrible things too. However, I cannot see how you can equate the modern Christian church with the regime in pyongyang. They may worship a dead leader but we worship a risen one and life for almost all in North Korea, of any faith or bone is incredibly hard. I have not been there but have read and learnt about the place. As always you are entitled to your opinion and I am in no way offended but I feel you have either a faulty vote of the church or of north Korea or of both. I am not saying this to be offensive, I guess I am just surprised at the strength of your feeling Pedro.

Sorrry I meant to way that I think the church is totally different to north Korea and that for both those of faith and those of none life is very hard in north Korea. You are right Pedro they do appear to worship their leader. The regime has created a closed, isolated, evil state where people are subjected to concentration camps if they step out of line. I have been in many churches and they have their faults bit none I know of are like this.

North Korea is obviously different in many ways, but they have a leader who is decreed as all powerful and all knowing and the people are threatened with death or imprisonment if they defy the word of the leader. Now, the modern Christian Church in liberal western society is not quite the same any more, mostly because it has had to restrain itself in more recent centuries, but when it had the run of the world and could implement its own methods this was precisely how things were dealt with.

In any case, the people of North Korea are brainwashed to believe what they are told about the world because they have no contact outside of the country, so they follow this doctrine and never realise that everywhere (almost) else is different. There are many parallels you can draw with religion (not just Christianity).

In fact, you see the same kind of thing with Apple. They had the infallible leader Steve Jobs, Apple fans believe against the evidence that Apple are the best company in the world and will preach their doctrine to those who don't 'get it'.

I'm in no way saying that all of these examples are the same, but the similarities are striking.

Thank you Pedro for explaining more.