hideous hymns, vocal vicars and theatrical thuribles. Religious Chat Thread Number 6!

[nickelbabe]

Welcome to the Religion Chat thread.
We're mostly Christians, but all are welcome.
a lovely soace to talk about church life, spiritual journeys and stuff in general.
It's not about debate, it's about chat.
Come oldies and newbies!

this is the previous thread

Hi Gary and Lasro

I like most styles of music and our church manages to have a bit of both happy clappy and traditional. We don't have a proper organ though so the traditional hymns are played on an electronic organ, which probably isn't quite the same. I like it best though when we sing verses of hymns or worship songs unaccompanied, but I spent many years as a kid singing in a choir where the songs were always unaccompanied. It doesn't matter too much to me if it is a verse of something more modern such as "In Christ Alone" or something more traditional. We do sometimes get a bit flat, but it doesn't matter too much!

electronic organ

Yus, our choir has always done the choir items unaccompanied (except where they are marked for accompaniment), and we just don't have the calibre of choristers anymore to pull that off.

Our choir has shrunk so much in the past 10 years. :(

I think our organ is electronic now. We had a pipe organ but it needed so much spending on it and then maintaining it that it was just not feasible. So our minister, who is a very accomplished organist and pianist chose the best we could afford and it is very nice when we use it. This is not very often as we also have a worship band. I am chosing not to attend morning services at the moment, for various reasons and I know there are a number of people who feel the same.
It is impossible to please all the people all the time. Our evening services are much quieter and I'm able to go about once a month, mainly when we are singing. Never unaccompanied. At the moment we are practising for the Peterborough festival, this is the Free Church Choir Union. Some of that is unaccompanied but we will have 400 singers.

that's the problem with pipe organs - they need to be constantly loved.

we've been very fortunate with our organ history in that it has always been properly looked after - it's never had a period of "oh, we won't use the organ for a while", because it's always been such an important instrument in the church (both the for encouraging music in the church services and also in progressing the skills of the organists)
There is a small worry about what will happen in the future, as although our organ is still properly maintained (the tuner used to be one of the assistant organists and choirmaster, so has a vested interest), we don't have so many young people who want to be a part of that. The Organist we had before was instrumental in teaching the two current organists everything they needed - DH learned entirely under him (having already learned the piano), and asst organist learned at school and was encouraged by the old Organist to improve his skills and become assistant.

DH isn't a teacher., even though he is very skilful.
Hopefully, DD will learn the piano and then the organ, but it's up to her, of course, whether she will want to.

I'd love to learn the organ. If only I lived closer ...

I'd also need much more spare time. Between three kids, work and my existing instruments I just don't have the time. I've thought that if I have more time when the kids are older I'd love to learn. Maybe some day.

Our whole congregation only sings unaccompanied now and again but we'll only sing a verse or two, never a whole song or hymn. We do tend to go a bit flat but it sorts itself out when the instruments come back in. We also only do it with hymns or songs that are very well known. Although the singing is led by a worship group with about four singers I suspect there are a few other people in the congregation who have sung in choirs at some point in the past.

Most churches here do all their singing unaccompanied but mainly due to not having instruments/musicians rather than any theological point. In the church we usually go to the Pastor's wife pitches the songs but she has a very low voice and even though I'm happy singing alto I often find them way too low . There was a very funny 'pitch off' between her and a visiting preacher earlier in the summer

Today we visited a different church for their harvest festival and they had an accordion and a guitar. I also sang 'We plow the fields and scatter' (in English) but only one verse because I hadn't prepared and that was all the words that DH and I could remember. Not having prepared it I'd also forgotten what a wide range you need for it! I just about made the top notes

I was also pleased (and thinking about Nickel) because they did the Lords Prayer. The church we used to be in here didn't use it very often so I didn't really learn it in Romanian but the one we got to now does, but they say it really fast and I'm normally lost before the end (it's quite tricky to pronounce). But the church today did it nice and slowly and I remembered all the words and got them all in. Phew!

Could I use your lovely thread to ask a question, please?

I share many Christian beliefs, but they're more my own collection of beliefs, that just happen to be the same, I just call them different names.

Anyway, I'm going through a really, really tough time at the moment, and have this feeling that I'd like to go to a church in the next town, when I next go ice skating, because it's quiet, I can be alone with my thoughts, maybe light a candle, and pray that my situation resolves itself, in whatever way that may be.

Can I just call into a church and do this? Are they open in the week? I'm really sorry, but I know very little about church life, I just feel like... this might be a good place for me to be right now.

I think this may be the time that I begin to find my faith.

Give it a go Lollipop. It may well be open and if it is I'm sure nobody would mind if you soend some time in there.

If it's open no one will mind if you go in there to be quiet - in fact you'd be more than welcome to. You might find, if it's a big church, that there's a prayer place with a candle, or you can just sit somewhere and rest in the quietness. Stay as long as you want, and don't worry that you don't know what to do. Just be.

Churches can be locked because of the threat of vandalism but big town centre churches are often open. There may be people around but they should respect your wish to sit quietly. I hope you find what you need.

cloutie - if you play the piano, it's only a short step to the organ - you have to use two feet as well as two hands

we're constantly going flat in our singing when we're not accompanied

Lollipop - yes, you really can just go into any church and be alone to think/pray/sit. Our church is open during the week, and before and after services, and anyone can come in.
We will usually speak to visitors, but if you tell them you want to sit and think, they'll leave you alone :)

(churches that are open usually have set times so they can have people in looking after it)

we've got good news!
we've now got 2 new junior choristers!
(one I think you already know about - JC1's younger sister)
the other one appeared on Friday evening for practice - she's a lovely girl and has choral experience from school , so she knows the basics, and didn't seem too daunted by us

so it won't be long before I'm going JC1, JC2 and JC3

in other news - PCC was fun last night.
I think some of you have "liked" our new facebook page, so you've been keeping tabs on us.

the meeting was very fraught and very emotional and confrontational and arguingal (not me though! I didn't argue with anyone or upset anyone )
anyway, remember ages and ages ago, we were all talking about Messy Church, and I put it across as an idea I'd like to see in our church, to get the young people and families in, but of course it was poo-pooed.

So this new Messy Church idea will happen at St Mary's (of course, why put new stuff into the fuddy duddy church in the centre of town )

It's an exciting step forward for our parish, and I'm really excited about helping, but it still makes me go "and what about us?"

Glad it's going ahead nickel but a shame it can't happen in your church. Messy Church is generally a great hit anywhere, doesn't matter about the style of church - one of our local churches is a high choral tradition church and they have a very popular Messy Church once a month which attracts around 100 children :) It's exciting that you can be involved though and if you want any tips feel free to ask (Lucy Moore, founder of MC was on our conference last week)

Great news about teh junior choristers.

Hello to newbies! I've been a bit quiet here lately - stressful time mixed with computer being unreliable and illness.

exactly - my original idea was that it would attract people into our building that didn't come to normal services - the idea that it attracts non-church people.

but hey, can't win 'em all.
(i'm sure that the idea of our church wasn't even in the imagination when this was put forward - something that always happens.)
and i've still got this nagging "hey! that was my idea and noone liked it and now you've stolen it for yourself!"

I'd feel cross about that too nickel :)

thanks

(i can only be consoled by the fact it was NVW's idea, and she wasn't around then!)

Thanks everyone - doesn't look like the church I was planning on going to is open tomorrow. I actually wouldn't mind a nice friendly person talking to me - could probably do with it tbh.

I've sung in choirs at school before and loved it - sort of miss it but just don't have the time now :(

What would you like to talk about Lollipop? We're all friendly people here...

My lovely granddad, who has basically been the father figure in my life, has more than likely got some form of inoperable lung cancer :(

It's so unfair :( I've never known my dad, so my granddad has been my dad, basically. He's a lovely man, why did this have to happen to him? :(

So sorry to hear that, Lollipop. That's really tough.

It is tough, but you know something? I never thought I would align myself to any given religion, but I've just been doing a little bit of reading, having posted on the lovely prayer thread here, and the passages from the Bible I've read, have resonated with me, and I'm finding comfort in them.

I'm a bit shocked in a way, but in a good way, IYSWIM?

sorry Lollipop :(
but it's nice you're finding comfort.

Yes, I know what you mean Lollipop. Making a first acquaintance with the Christian faith can be quite shocking. It has always been so, right through the ages from when Jesus was first here on earth. People have always been shocked 'but in a good way'
Things will be hard for you too, what with your grandfather's illness; I am praying that you will feel that you are being carried through. Because that is the promise of the gospel: that God will always be there for you. Don't let anybody tell you that the Christian life is a picnic. It is not, but my own experience and that of many others is that somehow they coped with whatever life (and death) threw at them. I hope that you can find some people in real life to support you through the coming weeks and months and that you will come on here and share with us as well. Every blesssing

I need some perspectives on tithing.
Not on tithing to the church, but rather away from the church - ie the Parish giving away 10% of its income to other charities.

This was raised at the PCC meeting by the curate of HT that they tithe to charities, and I know that CW wants us to tithe - but it seemed that there was a general acknowledgement that it was meet for the Parish (churches in general) to tithe to other charities.

Now, I don't really know a lot about this - the only thing I know about tithing is that it's 10% of a person's income to the church for their work.
I have never heard of a church saying that it's a duty to give 10% to someone else (and I think ti seems like a bit of a misuse of funds - if I give to the church, I give to the church for the work it's doing, for its mission, costs and staff, not for them to give it away to someone else)

so, I decided to research it. and not only did I find lots of references to the fact that it's not actually our duty as christians to tithe, but someone we do because we want to, that it might be something from the old covenant that Jesus dying took away our obligation to, but I haven't found any theological reference to the church giving the money away to someone else.

and the more I think about it, the more wrong I feel it is - we give our money to the church, not to them to act as a donor to others (obviously if we're doing work that helps the poor and needy, then that's classed as directly form the church, not a donation to another charity)

But this curate made me feel like she was properly judging us for not doing it - she said "it's our duty" and other things like that - even made out that the reason their church is so successful is because they tithe (that'll be the one thing that's totally wrong- you tithe because you want to, not because you want a personal gain from it!)

anyway, I thought I'd ask you lot of opinions - and any references if you have any to point me in the direction of any recommendation from the CofE or the Diocese to say that a Parish should tithe to outside charities. I'm totally flummoxed!