insulting religions

[IneedAgoldenNickname]

Hi, I've never posted on this topic before, I tend to hang out in aibu, but don't want to start a bun fight!

So, I am a liberal Christian. I firmly believe that everyone had to right to believe (or not) whatever they want, provided that belief doesn't hurt anyone else.

Earlier today I posted a lighthearted status on Facebook, which had led to me being called mindless, stupid, stuck up, thinking I'm better than everyone else. I've been told God is a c**t (sorry I hate that word so much I won't type it) and that the Bible is only God for loo roll!

I'm just really angry that people think its ok to insult me/my religion like that, when I haven't once preached or insulted others.

Obviously the easy solution would be to delete them off of Facebook, but they are people I get on with other wise.

Don't really know the point of my post, just hoping id feel better writing it down.

Sod it. Italics fail.

Exactly what I'm saying, Ethel! It shuold be studied more.

Slug, well, given that university departments don't do entry and exit polls as to belief (now there's a sociology of religion PhD waiting to happen!), it's a bit lopsided to extraoplate from your cohort any convincing conclusions as to the impact of academic theology on believers. Yes, it's obvious to see how a certain type of fundamentalist faith wouldn't survive, but that's not the whole picture. And yes, I know that students aren't expected to believe any of it! Juts out of interest, and I compltely understand if you don't want to out yourself further, when did you do your degree? And what kind of 'stark facts' were presented to you? I was haing a really interesting conversation about this wih a colleague the other day.

Grimma, which philosophiques are you unimpressed by? Is it their methodologies, or conclusions you find dire? Or both? It seems obvious to me that 'some thinkers are better than others'; reminds me of the Smiths song 'Some girls are bigger than others'....

@IneedaGoldennickname... like most people you seem to be confused if you go and shout someting in public..... which is what you do on facebook. You no longer have the right to be offended by the public reply. The fact is most religions do hurt others, contrary to your claim, although such hypocricy is the staple of most religions......as a 'christian' regardless of your proclaimed 'liberal' status you effectively suggest that other religions are incorrect...this is the same level of insult that you just percieved...in short you have no more right not to be mocked and harangued over your beliefs than does someone who publically professes they have organised their daily lives on the basis of advice given by a lump of mould under the sink.

Ellie, the point which I made very clearly is that, regardless of students' belief, academic theology is a rigorous, worthwhile and intensive subject of study. The course outlines I linked to illustrate that.

If you dismiss it as 'unsupported waffle', well, that's your own unsupported prejudice.

@susan but OP didn't shout about her religious beleifes. She mentioned a discussion she had had with some people who were religious. And disagreed with them!

Holo, I'm afraid they didn't sufficiently stick in my mind to discuss properly.

Ellie...I think 'theology' isn't exactly what you're characterising it as - I expect Slug could clarify what it is and isn't. (Names aren't always accurate - the word 'astrology' should mean what 'astronomy' does for instance.)

The role of religious belief in society has been a central concern of anthropology since its inception in the late nineteenth century. Is that what people mean by 'it has barely been studied'. ?

@ethelb She did shout... any comment on facebook goes to all your friends, how often do you stand in a room of over a hundred people and scream so all of them can hear you? You do that they are entitled to comment back. She stated shes a christian...many people find that offensive since it suggests that they are wrong in their own beliefs.... We need to be more aware of what facebook actually is.

@niminy I mean scientifically. Specifically genetically as there is a lot of interest in behavioural geneticts. We look for the gay gene. We look for the autistic gene. We look for the gene that causes mental illness. But as far as I am aware there are no trails looking for a theist gene.

Maybe I should pitch a thesis!

We don't know if she stated that she is a christian in her post. just that she disagreed with some. And I do think that it isn't undreasonable to not be called names for being honest about ones theological position.

Plus I think being offended that someone has a religion that might suggest they are wrong does come under the professional offense taker heading. I hate the term but sorry, it just does!

Ellie, I am more than aware that "there are actually quite a few people who do not genuinely believe what you do, right?" !! [would like to say that it is as much what I do as what I say and who I am]
I will try not to "presume to know me better than I know myself".

I dont have letters of any description after my name.
I have never done a study course on it. Nor have huuge numbers of Christians. Those that have studied it, are, I would have thought, huugely in the minority.

And I cannot see any degree to which I have contradicted myself above.

But as far as I am aware there are no trails looking for a theist gene

I think I've heard of something along those lines...this is what a search for 'god gene' throws up, no idea if its good science but maybe the sort of thing you mean?

It's exactly as I've described it, Grimma.

THEOLOGY

1. The study of the nature of God and religious truth; rational inquiry into religious questions.
2. A system or school of opinions concerning God and religious questions: Protestant theology; Jewish theology.
3. A course of specialized religious study usually at a college or seminary

As Thomas Paine said: "The study of theology, as it stands in Christian churches, is the study of nothing; it is founded on nothing; it rests on no principles; it proceeds by no authorities; it has no data; it can demonstrate nothing; and it admits of no conclusion. Not anything can be studied as a science, without our being in possession of the principles upon which it is founded; and as this is the case with Christian theology, it is therefore the study of nothing."

I agree with him. That universities shoe horn "History of Religion" etc in with the various courses does not give "theology" a different definition.

She stated shes a christian...many people find that offensive since it suggests that they are wrong in their own beliefs

In that case any of us stating anything about what we believe is going to be offensive to someone...sorry, that's a very strange position to take.

I don't use FB but it doesn't sound to me like the OP was 'shouting' anything.

niminypiminy: And you might have a look at the section on 'reception' in the Wikipedia article on The Selfish Gene for an account of some of the critics of the book, and some of the ways in which its thesis has been challenged, changed or overtaken.

OK, done as asked. Nothing noteworthy. Some mathmatical biologists didn't agree to the extent of RD's book so what. The second bit was about group selection (yawn) everyone keeps trying to jump on that old bandwagon - far from being 'widely accepted'. And the third bit was about little quibbles from a couple of scientists about whether the unit of selection is on the gene or phenotype...this is far from rejecting or rewriting RD's work as phenotypes come from genotypes.

Evolutionary geneticists work (I can guarantee) on the principle that genes are the target of selection and that group selection is, at best, a very weak force.

Nothing about RD's Selfish Gene is remotely controversial. Sorry.

ethelb, there was a Radio 4 debate a long time ago discussing religious IQ and 'a gene for religion' type of thing. I believe there is ongoing research into this - it's nothing new. It appears to be quite important to us humans to believe in something outside of us. We continually search for meaning and sense. Even back in the day when we all thought the Sun god was punishing us by destroying our crops. Perhaps this is a product of a large mind that looks for links between events in order to survive? Or perhaps there is a real evolutionary advantage to believing and genes are directly belie this behaviour? Oops, just found this by typing god gene into google. Quite interesting actually. As others have said, we can induce these states in people with low religious IQs.

Yes that is the sort of thing I mean. Though I beleive that particular theory has been thrown out by most reputable scientists as the hypothesis itself is a bit wooly.

rational inquiry into religious questions
That's not a study of nothing - whether god exists or not, religion does.
I would guess some would say that 'the study of God' also does not necessarily mean such an entity must exist since many and various ideas about god(s) do exist and - for better or worse - have a profound impact on mankind.

Paine may have been right 'as it stands in Christian churches' but that is probably not quite the same thing as a 21st C theology degree.

ethelb...well you can call it professional offence taking but i think you'll find that simply being of a different religion has in fact caused many many wars. This is because people get quite edgy when somoeone appears and basically implies that because of THEIR faith you are wrong, evil and in many cases condemned to hell. Personally pretending religions arent offensive to many people i find to be wilfully ignoring the facts.

@ethelb but I don't take offense that someone else thinks I'm wrong. I think if I did I would expect to be told to man up.

ethelb - I think its also pretty obvious from the OP that her status update mentioned her religion or there would have been no relevance in the replies she recieved.

Susan why do I not have the right to be offended by offensive things? Like being, called thick, stupid or deluded? My status did NOT mention my religion, not sure how its obvious that it did

Is it 'being of another religion' which causes wars, or is it 'being unable to tolerate different religious beliefs'?

I rather think the latter is a more accurate description.

Done some more googling, and found this too. I'm not trying to give these as exemplars of research, ethelb, just that the questions have been asked and some people are trying to answer them. I personally think they will find genetic predispositions for spirituality and the like which people have exploited over time to exert control over others (that's how I really see 'organised' religion).

Holo - I was merely pointing out that in my experience as someone who actually has studied, and gained, one of those degrees, that my fellow students went in religious and came out atheist. You come out of these degree programmes with a clear view of religion as a means of social control.

(Outs self even more) I now work in a world class university that has a large Religious Studies department with an international reputation. Faith simply does not come into the academic study except in the form of "The followers of this religion believe this"

@lebfg thanks for that. I'll start writing my literature review!