insulting religions

[IneedAgoldenNickname]

Hi, I've never posted on this topic before, I tend to hang out in aibu, but don't want to start a bun fight!

So, I am a liberal Christian. I firmly believe that everyone had to right to believe (or not) whatever they want, provided that belief doesn't hurt anyone else.

Earlier today I posted a lighthearted status on Facebook, which had led to me being called mindless, stupid, stuck up, thinking I'm better than everyone else. I've been told God is a c**t (sorry I hate that word so much I won't type it) and that the Bible is only God for loo roll!

I'm just really angry that people think its ok to insult me/my religion like that, when I haven't once preached or insulted others.

Obviously the easy solution would be to delete them off of Facebook, but they are people I get on with other wise.

Don't really know the point of my post, just hoping id feel better writing it down.

Amillion: lots of people are invited to and attend weddings/funerals for friends and family who have a different religious belief or don't have one. Most people, nowadays, have friends, at least, who have different worldviews, beliefs and cultures, but just about everyone feels a need for some form of ceremony when it comes to major life events. I would certainly have no problem attending a CHristian funeral any more than I'd have a problem with a Hindu or Muslim funeral: you attend a funeral to comfort the bereaved and it's no hardship to be quiet and respectful during a ceremony that they find helpful even if you don't share their specific beliefs.

As to a humanist funeral, humanism doesn't involve worship, as there is nothing to worship.

Amillion Atheists don't have an agenda - but atheists can get involved in things like Humanism and Secularism which, I suppose, do have an agenda.

I'm involved in both and if I have an agenda it's to promote a secular society which I think is the only way to protect your right to have your religion and my right not to have it inflicted on me.

I have the "God" debate because I enjoy it. From experience I know perfectly well that it doesn't change anyone's mind, but that's not my business. I also debate other things too - I find it stimulating.

If I was American I would be a campaigning atheist - the ignorance & prejudice aimed at atheists in some parts of that country is genuinely shocking. But there's not really any need for that here - we are not a particularly religious country and most of us are of the same mind over most things.

There are places where atheists go and chat to each other, but they annoy me intensely. Like the Richard Dawkins website - I can't stand that. It's almost as if they're all trying to "out-clever" each other and the toadying messages to "Richard" make my toes curl.

I'm not really involved with that website much any more - I got bored addressing the same issues over and over again.

And my tooth is much better, thank you :)

Morning all,
Well, being an atheist(or whatever) doesn't really come up in casual conversation, does it? I mean you don't really introduce yourself by saying "Hi, I'm Sunflowers and I'm an atheist."
Perhaps you do know some but just don't realize it, because a lack of belief in something means it doesn't register in your life at all, therefore you don't have the need to talk about it unless directly asked. Much like you probably don't find yourself discussing Shinto, because you don't believe in it.
Having been brought up in the Catholic faith (convent educated) I have many friends who have got married in church/ had their children baptized into the Catholic church and I have no problem going along to celebrate their momentous occasions with them. It's their day so they you respect their choice and enjoy the occasion with them.
I wouldn't stand as godparent, though. I couldn't make the vows required, that would be totally hypocritical.

If any of my friends get married in a church (or have their funeral in one) then of course I go. The only thing I don't do is bow my head and pray, but I sit quietly while others do.

Not quite sure why you think humanist "services" would involve the devil! We don't believe in him either!!

We believe in the sun - but only as a ball of hot plasma (or whatever it is) so not really anything to worship :)

Ellie, I think I am the opposite to you in some ways.
I have no interest in gardening for example. No way would I be anywhere discussing gardening if I could help it!
Ok, to look at, but not discuss!

I agree, America seems different. And often not in a good way re religion.

Think I need to look up Humanism. Dont really have a clue as to what it is all about.
Think I may have more of a grasp of Secularists. Not much though.

I was beginning to think you were a witch, SG.
Can witches be Humanists? Can Humanists be witches?
I think I need to google, unless anyone cares to fill me in.

Do humanists and secularists get buried in a Church churchyard?

Slight x post with Ellie.

I think I am finding it all a bit alien to not believe in anything.
Presumably then, you dont think there is a reason to be born at all?

And apologies for any putting my foot it in syndrome here.

Your gardening analogy is not a good one!

Let's try......leprechauns.

I bet you don't believe they exist. Neither do I. So there's not really any need to discuss them, so we don't.

But, if half the country DID believe in leprechauns & told the rest of us that our immortal souls were in danger for not also believing in them, if they were trying to teach leprechaunism in school & had special leprechaun priests sitting in our government by right then you'd have no option but to talk about leprechauns even though you don't believe they exist.

Presumably then, you dont think there is a reason to be born at all? No, not really - but I feel very lucky and privileged that I was and try to make the most of it.

Ah, yes I see.
Ooh heck. Not so good looking at things from your side.
But wouldnt you then have to think that leprchaunism was doing some harm?

I think that depends on what you think a witch is, million. The Hollywood devil worshiping satanist or someone who respects and wonders at the natural magnificence of the world the live in and the universe we are part of. Wicca is a later development which seems to place much more emphasis on ritual.
Originally, the Cunning folk (later known as witches) were people who were attuned to the rhythms of the changing seasons and were skilled in healing with natural remedies. Can't see much wrong with that, personally.

"But wouldnt you then have to think that leprchaunism was doing some harm?"

Yes. And I think that religion does do a great deal of harm - perhaps not in this country any more because we're very secular in practice now, but certainly in many, many parts of the world.

But even here, we have religion trying to poke it's nose into other people's business - trying to prevent gay people getting married, women from having abortions, preventing research on stem cells etc. I, for one, would rather it didn't.

Dont all witches do spells, and Devil worship?

No, there's no devil worshipping for witches. Most witches don't believe in a devil.

The devil (satan) is an invention of the Abrahamic faiths, million.
Spells and charms to a wiccan would be just like you praying.

But I pray to God.
What or who does a wiccan pray to?

Feel like I, or we have gone off the op's subject. Hope she doesnt mind?

Wiccans generally believe in a Goddess and a God.

It's odd, but even though know some Jews, Muslims and Sikhs, I never seem to discuss belief with them. It's almost always with Christians, and with the more zealous ones too.

The problem with how atheism is perceived is that there can be this very 50/50, GW-Bush-style "for us or against us" attitude among Christians - sometimes this manifests itself as the twisted thinking that, if you don't believe in God, you must believe in the Devil. It's frustrating. Part of the reason atheists get involved in these discussions - to answer the question about why you'd discuss something you don't believe in - is to attempt to redress these misconceptions. I try to make it clear that "it's not all about you" - i.e. I'm not an atheist purely with respect to the Judeo-Christian God as set out in the Bible, I'm an atheist with respect to all gods. Atheists tend to have a list like this one in mind! We consider them all to be equally mythical - it's not just about the one who's currently the most popular. Hope that helps.

The Christian God?
Which do they pray to, both? That would be strange

No, not the Christian God. He's the consort of the Goddess and yes, rituals involve both.

DadOnIce, that is some list!
Yes, this thread is helping me to understand atheists a bit better.

Have to be careful how I put the next bit.
If I didnt believe in something, I personally would find life somewhat depressing.

How do atheists and Humanists and secularists feel about being buried in a Church churchyard?

amillion - witches aren't really a single group with a single belief. There are all manner of pagans, some who will identify themselves as witches and some who don't. Most acknowledge a goddess and a god, often many goddesses and gods. Some see these as literal entities but most (in my experience) regard them as aspects either of nature of of ourselves. So, the sacred is seen as being in all of us and all of nature, rather than being a seperate being.

There is not any identification with the christian god or satan for that matter, in fact the devil is seen as something of a christian paradox. Many witches/pagans do worship the lord of the wildwood, often depicted as Pan, whose image was appropriated by the church as an image of the devil. What he actually represents is the male aspect of life and creation.

It wouldn't bother me, Amillion since I wouldn't exist any more to be bothered by it. But I suspect I'll be cremated so it won't be an issue.

I don't find life without a god to worship depressing. I think life is absolutely extraordinary - we are extraordinary. We are made from atoms that were born in the middle of a star and got spewed out when the star died. We are a walking, talking, thinking part of the universe - the universe is talking about itself through us. That to me is infinitely more beautiful than any religious myth invented by humanity. Life doesn't need to go on forever to be considered precious and you can still find purpose - the difference is, I get to choose my own purpose rather than have one imposed on my by a celestial dictator.

Beautifully put Ellie.

Mostly, thanks for the explanation.

How do atheists and Humanists and secularists feel about being buried in a Church churchyard?

I wouldn't imagine many are - most people (atheist or otherwise) are cremated now anyway. If for some reason we had a family plot in a churchyard and that's where the surviving members of my family wanted to put me, it wouldn't bother me where it was. Why would it?

As to funerals - we recently had to arrange MILs. Although DH and I are both atheists, and MIL never had any discernable religious belief, we had a very conventional 'christian' service by the duty CofE vicar. This was because she had left no instructions so the best thing seemed to do exactly what she'd had for FIL (standard Abide with me and bible reading...forget what now but one of the obvious ones); we know that there aren't enough humanist celebrants to cater for the growing demand so best let them deal with people who expressed that preference; - and perhaps most of all because DHs surviving aunty would have been upset if we'd done anything else.