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Philosophy/religion

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Original poster

Isn't it a bit weird that you have to believe in a god to join cubs, but it doesn't matter which god it is?

30 replies

beansmum · 29/11/2012 21:06

They can't ALL be real. Assuming you think one of them is real - why is an incorrect belief in another god better than an incorrect belief that there is no god at all?

OP posts:
KnittingChristmas · 29/11/2012 21:07

Atheists might start making other cubs question their religion? Wink

Original poster
beansmum · 29/11/2012 21:31

Wouldn't exposure to different religions have a similar effect?

OP posts:
MirandaWest · 29/11/2012 21:32

No one has ever asked DS (or me for that fact) whether he believes in God in terms of him having been a Beaver, or being a Cub. Have we just missed out?

AMumInScotland · 29/11/2012 21:40

Two options I think -

  1. believing in the wrong God means you are just a bit mistaken, whereas atheism is fundamentally different from belief
  1. all religious belief comes from one source, which is God, so there is no such thing as believing in the 'wrong' one. But not believing at all is just wrong.

Miranda - he has made a promise which mentions God. He may have been so totally not bothered by the concept of "God" that he barely noticed or cared.

Original poster
beansmum · 29/11/2012 21:59

I sort of understand the logic of those options, but from a practical point of view it makes no sense. If there are lots of religions represented, some of which conflict with each other fairly significantly, you would have to be sensitive and avoid most faith based activities. It's kind of pointless to require everyone to have a religion if it's going to have no impact on the way the group is run.

OP posts:
AMumInScotland · 29/11/2012 22:05

Oh I totally agree it's pointless! Even if they wanted to encourage religion, getting the non-religious in to have a chance to talk to them would be a good thing rather than a bad thing. But all the cubs etc groups are based on a traditional pattern, where religious belief was the norm, even if a few people might have been from religions other than christianity (and more than a few in other countries). So they were respectful of the idea that your God might not be the Christian God, but atheism was just too much to face.

PedroPonyLikesCrisps · 29/11/2012 23:18

Interestingly there is a badge for 'my religion' .... guess that's a bit tricky if you're an atheist. Also I'm not sure cubs are necessarily old enough to have formed their own opinion on religious matters, perhaps it should be called 'my parents' religion' instead.

technodad · 30/11/2012 12:56

Interestingly there is a badge for 'my religion' .... guess that's a bit tricky if you're an atheist. Also I'm not sure cubs are necessarily old enough to have formed their own opinion on religious matters, perhaps it should be called 'my parents' religion' instead.

Or "The thing I have been brainwashed into without my permission" badge.

No one has ever asked DS (or me for that fact) whether he believes in God in terms of him having been a Beaver, or being a Cub. Have we just missed out?

Did he not have to swear to do his duty to god? If you can't make that oath then you can't join.

Isn't it a bit weird that you have to believe in a god to join cubs, but it doesn't matter which god it is?

Some say weird, some say discriminatory, but we have been here before just a couple of weeks ago on this forum.

FiercePanda · 30/11/2012 18:21

When I was in Brownies waaaaaay back in the day, a girl got to rewrite a bit of her Promise, as she was from an atheist family and her parents didn't want her promising to do her duty to a god they didn't believe in. I remember the pack leaders being very sniffy about the whole thing with her and her parents, which was not good at all. Confused

Original poster
beansmum · 01/12/2012 01:02

technodad - thanks for pointing that out, found a couple of threads now.

OP posts:
NamingOfParts · 01/12/2012 01:16

No solution only sympathy. Both DDs liked Guides/Brownies except that our troops were very church based. This meant that meetings were basically prep for church parade/church parade/review of church parade. This really left little time for anything else.

Ontesterhooks · 01/12/2012 03:04

I am going to teach my ds about the Flying Spaghetti Monster and pastaferianism for when this comes up :)

FiercePanda · 01/12/2012 08:14

Now down to his noodly appendage!

FiercePanda · 01/12/2012 08:15

Bow, not now.Confused

crescentmoon · 01/12/2012 08:21

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

crescentmoon · 01/12/2012 08:22

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

seeker · 01/12/2012 08:23

It says "do my duty to my god".

We discussed this with ds recently- he said it without really thinking at Beavers and Cubs, but did think about it before moving on to Scouts. He decided that his god was currently Darwin, so he was fine with saying the line.

seeker · 01/12/2012 08:24

Atheist "affirm"

ByTheWay1 · 01/12/2012 08:25

I'm sure every religion thinks their God is the only one and if others join their "club" the others may think they are promising their own God from their own religion, but really they are promising the God of the organisers...

my cousin made her promise to her "Gods" as an atheist.. she said her Gods were of peace and love so the Brown Owl couldn't really say much....

Alibabaandthe40nappies · 01/12/2012 08:26

I think it is more to do with affirming the general idea of community, helping others, thinking about something other than yourself, something greater than each one of us plodding along in isolation.

Good things for children to think about, whatever their beliefs.

seeker · 01/12/2012 08:32

Sorry, pressed too soon. Atheists say "I do solemnly declare and affirm that the evidence....etc etc" As do lots of other people, including some Christians who won't take oaths because that implies that they might be lying otherwise. It's based on a biblical text which says "let your yeah be yeah and your no be no". You've been able to affirm since 16 something.

RooneyMara · 01/12/2012 08:34

Yes I think you have to play it backwards though iyswim...rather than do my duty to 'God' they have to 'my God' which allows for different faiths and so on...I think that's a good thing and just ignore it, or don't say it if it doesn't apply to you.

The way I see it God is a concept, basically means 'what is good' but not some mystical being - just maybe a mystical or spiritual essence, somehow, a feeling, a sense of right, etc etc etc. Which I have no problem with at all.

I just don't subscribe to the people-based, church-based, ritual-based things that happen around it so much.

Try and do what is 'right' is what I teach my children, that should be enough.

crescentmoon · 01/12/2012 08:46

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

msrisotto · 01/12/2012 08:47

Crescent apparently the whole swearing to god thing is fabricated/ highly exaggerated for films. link

LaCiccolina · 01/12/2012 08:52

Op, responding to orig question it's because the faiths more or less preach similar things, kindness /importance of family/ fellow man type tenets. So if u are of a faith u are following or understand or are learning to understand these concepts. Cubs was originally Christian when set up, whilst they have decided to broaden their world view somewhat they just didn't want to accept the view thier might not b a god. I have to commend them for being as accepting as they have even if some are still left out. More than other groups have been.