Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Philosophy/religion

Join our Philosophy forum to discuss religion and spirituality.

"Left behind" - Churches Rapture!

57 replies

horseshoe · 07/04/2006 19:00

Just wondered what peoples take on this was. Im reading a book called Left Behind and it's prompted me to assess my faith!!! I'm intrigued at how specific the bible seems to be about this and although I have never taken much interest in religion I have always believed in a God. I'm thinking maybe I should take steps to begin learning and then I can make a decision on whether to accept christianity as my religion but i'm worried about how I can accept it fully without question!!!! I want to believe but I dont know how!!!!

OP posts:
purpleturtle · 07/04/2006 19:03

I haven't read the Left Behind series at all, so shouldn't really comment. But the 'rapture' idea isn't really mentioned in the Bible at all.

If you want to think through what you believe, then I'd recommend an Alpha course. They're geared up for you to ask any questions you need, not necessarily promising all the answers.

SleepyJess · 07/04/2006 19:03

Or you could have a look at this trilogy... starting with \link{http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0340693258/qid=1144432936/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_2_1/202-0107724-2588660\this} and see whether your belief could extend beyond (but inclusive of) Christianity, as happened to me..

Good luck

SJ x

MerlinsBeard · 07/04/2006 19:06

I really really enjoyed the left behind series, i have them all now (there are 12 and some prequels which i haven't got)

I am not a christian, although i was (i don't want to go into it here but am happy yto discuss if u like off the boards)

I would recommend an alpha course for a start, there are topics about who is jesus and why did he die. Its a good start on teh basics of christianity

Mosschops30 · 07/04/2006 19:08

Dont know anything about the book you're reading but I watched the BBC series the Monastery and it prompted me to go and stay there. I went on a Finding Faith weekend (they are running another one this summer), it was very relaxing, and low key, not ram-it-down-your-throat-religion at all (which I cant stand) they answered more questions than we could ask and the monks were very honest about everything (sex, popes, abortion, women priests, homosexuality etc).
Highly recommend it.

I am now taking my first Holy Communion next weekend.

Raro · 07/04/2006 19:09

yep, check out www.alphacourse.org to find a course near you. If yr near London it'd be worth checking out the courses at Holy Trinity Brompton which is where Alpha started .... Smile

SleepyJess · 07/04/2006 19:11

Have just ordered the book off Amazon.. am very intrigued by the plot..

moondog · 07/04/2006 19:14

hs,I haven't read this but attend chapel (when I can get a babysitter!) and am involved in my dd's Sunday school.
Have some issues with the Christian message,but find attendence at worship so soothing and restorative and civilised that I can deal with my doubts.

fullmoonfiend · 07/04/2006 19:14

Horsehoe, I could have written your post. Am halfway though an Alpha course, but I think it depends on where you go. Mine is filled with people who are already unquestioning christians, sort of reaffirming their faith, IFSWIM. So I actually feel that my questions are too 'big' for the group, if that makes sense. feel a bit disappointed and not sure where to go next.

SleepyJess · 07/04/2006 19:17

FMF have you read the CwG trilogy? (link in my first post below)?

purpleturtle · 07/04/2006 19:18

But Fullmoonfiend, the whole point is that you can ask the 'big' questions at Alpha. Do you have a group leader you could talk to about your disappointment?

fullmoonfiend · 07/04/2006 19:23

PT, I know, that's what I thought, but believe me, I got such eye rolling and tutting from other group members that I gave up. I did go to the leader about my issues with organised religion and he just said there there and offered to pray for me. :)
SJ, will look out for a copy I think, sounds intriguing.

horseshoe · 07/04/2006 19:23

I did do an Alpha course a couple of years ago! I got some usefulness from it but it wasn't a life changing experience. I have always had a problem with the bible thinking it as other peoples writing and how can I be sure that they tell the truth. I have dipped in and out of religion for the past 6 years but never quite taking Jesus into my heart. I think the left behind series has really hit home because it is the ultimate chance of eternal life in Gods kingdom. If that is not why we are here then why are we? So now I have to accept the bible as Gods word in order to become a true christian????? How far do I go to live my life by it?? I think I can accept it and I think I can accept Jesus.

OP posts:
horseshoe · 07/04/2006 19:26

FMF...same experience as you on my course...only they asked us what things meant to us and my answers were skimmed over and therefore I was made to feel that my thoughts were irrelevant.

OP posts:
MerlinsBeard · 07/04/2006 19:30

so, where do u ask ur questions if u don't want to talk toa vicar (etc) ?

Raro · 07/04/2006 19:32

Such a shame that you've had bad experiences. Then again, I think if you feel you 'want to believe' (as hshoe said) then you will eventually find a way. You can always throw out a 'if you're there, show me' prayer and see what happens. If God is real He ought to be able to help you discover that, surely?!
It's important to know that your issues and concerns absolutely ARE important and that it isn't necessary to just sweep things under the carpet if they're not 'easy to answer'.

MadameDeMars · 07/04/2006 19:47

horseshoe: what I love about my faith and God is that I can ask questions. I don't think that God minds if you can't accept Him fully without question. He only minds if we don't accept Him iyswim.

SleepyJess · 07/04/2006 19:51

I agree Mars. And then He only 'minds' for our sake. I don't believe he has this long long list of 'requirements' of us.. and this is not because this 'lets us off any hooks'. I particularly and seriously don't understand catholicism these days (this being the faith closest to my own that I know most about.) I have a real problem getting my head around what Catholics say God needs us to be.. and do.. and say. This is not God as I know Him.

horseshoe · 07/04/2006 20:54

I believe God does talk to me everyday and particuarly in dreams.....

About 6 years ago I had a dream that my friends and I were in a deserted house that was suposedly haunted and they dared me to stay on my own so I did. I was on an old couch that was the only object of furniture in that particular room when I saw a bright light in the hallway originating from another room. I went to this room and there was a man in a long white robe and one particular wall was filled with old photo's typically 18th century of women at garden tables with bonnets holding tennis rackets..that sort of thing. I was examining the photos when a young boy jumped out at me. He was of ethnic origin and it struck me as strange that he should be in these photos and so I asked the man who he was. The man replied that he was the devil child and that I should reject him. Anyway I decided to continue searching the house and upstairs there was an empty room with a cot in the corner. Inside the cot was this little boy. He looked so cute and appealing that it made me hold my hands out for him. With that the little boy sprang at me and as he did his smile became menacing and his ears became pointed. The old man had appeared behind me shouting that it was the devil child and at the last minute I pushed the boy away. Everything went back to being deserted!!!

That dream made me consider God for the first time!

OP posts:
quelsouci · 07/04/2006 21:27

I've read somewhere that the Left Behind series is real neocon stuff. "I'm saved so stuff the rest of you, who are all going to straight to hell in a handcart... bye-bye!"

My neighbor believes in God, or so she claims. However, she objects to my calling my son a "little devil", objects to hallowe'en (not that I blame her, quite frankly!) and thinks my SIL, who was diagnosed with MS 10 years ago & has since lost her faith, is likely to be claimed by the devil. We were involved in one of those endless front-door conversations and I had to stop saying "uh-huh, oh right, uh-huh, yeah" & dreaming of escape when she made that particular statement. Such idiocy! I prefer to believe that we are loved unconditionally by God, in the same way that we as mothers love our children and told her as much. Poor SIL!

nearlythree · 07/04/2006 21:29

I don't know the book, horseshoe, but I only tell you where I am on this. I'm a Christian but no longer belong to a mainstream church - I used to be very active in the CofE to the extent I nearly started training for the priesthood. I realised over the past year or so that you can never believe without questions - I have far more questions than answers - but that the conventional answers given by the church are very unsatisfactory. The Bible is a wonderful book and a great insight into the life of Jesus but it cannot be 100% accurate - it was written down by people, particularly men, all with their own ideas and agendas, and since then it has been edited by people with their own preconceptions. I am sure you have heard of the publication of the Gospel of Judas today, which comes from the Gnostic tradition, and supressed in the early centuries of Christianity. Had the Gnostics held the balance of power rather than the Roman church, we'd all be believing something very different.

There are a lot of books that take a new view of Christianity. I'm currently reading a book called Meeting Jesus Again for the First Time by Marcus Borg and it is fab - it strips away all the superstition around Jesus and, for me at any rate, has made him come more alive and be more interesting than any other book I've read, apart from the Bible.

In terms of places to look for answers, I really don't want to offend anyone but personally I find Alpha a bit too certain. Alpha helps many people but it only represents one stream of Christian thought and may not be right for you. Right now I find even ordinary Anglicanism too restrictive - I found I was being told what to think, and because I could no longer agree with it, I nearly lost my faith altogether. Now my faith is much stronger but I am having to find my own way to what I believe, through prayer, reading the Bible and other spiritual works, and through other people. God isn't 'out there', he/she is in everything, including other people, and particularly wherever love is shown.

Two liberal approaches to faith that you might like to engage with, that come from Christianity but do not have creeds, doctrines etc to which you have to believe in, are the Quakers and the Unitarians. Quaker worship is silent and is very much about waiting on God - it's about experiencing God rather than using too many words, although people do sometimes feel promted to speak. Unitarian worship is more along the lines of a traditional service and includes songs, a Bible reading, a reading from a spiritual text (not necessarily Christian), and a reflection. The Unitarians have sacraments like Communion and Baptism available. Both faiths have informative websites and you can get books on both - again, try Amazon. The Quakers in particular have a really useful introductory pack including a book that they will send out free via their website.

If you do want something more mainstream then I second the suggestion of trying somewhere like Worth Abbey.

HTH.

nearlythree · 07/04/2006 21:43

Okay, horseshoe, just had a look at the books on Amazon and I'd be very reluctant to take them seriously. From what I can gather it seems based on Revelations? It's now thought by many scholars that Rev. is a coded work about the Jewish attempt to overthrow the Roman Empire. At best it is simply a nightmare vision. You can't pick it apart looking for truth - it can be interpreted so many ways. As for this idea of 'soul harvesting' - believe now or go to Hell, have I got that right? - what kind of God would that be????? Christianity is my truth but it is not the only truth.

It sounds to me like the books are a reasonable enough read in the line of The Omen and other modern apocalyptic literature. I wouldn't read any more into them than that.

quelsouci · 07/04/2006 21:45

"apocalyptic literature": That just about sums it up.

horseshoe · 07/04/2006 22:20

Thanks for the input and advice. I am going to check into all of that and will hopefully find y footing somewhere.

The books themselves are not as bad as they are made out to be....they start with mysterious dissapearances. After his wife and child vanishes, a man realises that his deeply religious wife was correct about the rapture and he becomes a christian and sets about doing gods work so that when christ returns once more for the thousand years, he will be taken to gods kingdom. Its not just based on Revelations...it has many quotes from the new testemant.....

But I agree it is only literature. But that is what has got me thinking!!! surely they are based on some truth of what christians believe will happen at the end of days!! I have had various christians telling me of Jesus coming down from the skies on a cloud and god gathering all the true christians etc...

OP posts:
nearlythree · 07/04/2006 22:33

Yes, horseshoe, some Christians do believe that the world will end like that, but most don't and even among my very traditional friends I don't know anyone who does. Revelations was written nearly 2000 years ago and our understanding has moved on since then. Sadly it is often used to frighten and control people - the Bible has been used ever since it was written to make a particular pov seem acceptable - you can even justify slavery using the Bible if you want to.

You say you believe in God and that he speaks to you. Does what you read in these books square with the God you know?

SleepyJess · 07/04/2006 23:03

Nearlythree, that post of yours below (the long one) is inspired!! I have read something about the Unitarians and I too find their faith to make a lot of sense. I don't disagree with any part of what you have posted and think what you are saying fits very much with the Conversations with God books (Neale Donald Walsh) which changed a lot of things for me couple of years ago.

I still go to an anglican C of E church.. I enjoy the people and the atmosphere and the feeling of calm it gives me.. but I now find the philosophy/faith too restrictive and constantly have the feeling that what is being said within the services means that they are 'barking partly up the wrong tree' if you can understand what I mean!

I think I am slowly finding my own way into what and how to believe.. mostly via books I am reading (one seems to lead onto another all by different authors) and it feels very right to me to believe that God is All That Is.. as if I always knew this and suddenly I just 'remembered'. I know this sounds a bit naff but this is how it feels.

Thanks for your posts. I'm really interested in what you have to say.

SJ x