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Philosophy/religion

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Original poster

I'm sure I'm seeing ghosts.

142 replies

GreeenFingers · 13/10/2012 17:27

I work late afternoons as a cleaner in a school. The building is not that old, perhaps built in the early eighties.
It isn't remotely creepy but when I started I was sure I coud see children in the place, long after they'd gone home. Just fleeting glimpses that would make me turn my head. Thre was no " aura" or chill in the air that you sometimes associate with ghostly activity.
I tried to ignore it, not because I was frightened because I wasn't, but because I thought it might be my anxiety at having to do this job ( I had to take any work following redundancy)
However, although I'm very settled there now I am seeing just as much activity.
I have not mentioned this to all my collegues as I dont want to freak them out.I told my supervisor who informed me she had seen things in the old part of the school, that is set apart from this annex.
Has anyone else had such an experience?

OP posts:

headinhands · 12/08/2013 19:41

Nope, the person who makes the claim has to bring the evidence. That's how it works. I'm not making a claim. I'm saying there is no evidence for ghosts so have no choice but to reject such a claim.

As for the zombie apocalypse, I see the Duke of Edinburgh was out and about today bad bad headinhands

misskatamari · 12/08/2013 19:41

If they see the leprechaun then I suppose it exists to them

daftdame · 12/08/2013 19:43

But then who deems what is seen as a disorder?

Everyone's eyesight is subjective to some extent, for example in colour perception eg blue or green, black or very deep blue? Plumping for one is as much a decision as saying shadows or hazy objects, things we see out of the corner of our eyes are 'ghosts' or not.

To me it is fascinating the degree in which there is consensus and suggestibility. A lot of what is described as ghosts is hazy and fuzzy, corner of the eye stuff, right at the edge of our perceptions.

misskatamari · 12/08/2013 19:46

The person making the claim requires evidence if they are wishing to prove as fact. The op wasn't. It is their belief based on their experience. They don't need evidence to have belief/faith in something. It is up to them.

misskatamari · 12/08/2013 19:47

If they expect you to believe it then yes - evidence required.

daftdame · 12/08/2013 19:59

Whole societies can believe in supernatural things and have many sightings of them. They may be 'hallucinating' or maybe the people who don't perceive them just have less sensitive perception.

Who is to say which is correct?

If a spirit acts as an agent, some people may be more sensitive than others, as for people with acute hearing can detect very high frequency sounds but others don't. The people with acute hearing don't have 'malfunctioning hearing'. Before we knew how to measure sound frequency, though, they may have seemed odd.

headinhands · 12/08/2013 20:22

The problem with the sound frequency analogy is that we discovered higher and lower frequencies as our equipment became more sensitive. Not that we discovered a whole new phenomena/area that altered what we had already observed about physics. It's not as if we have anything to build on. It comes down to the, 'without evidence I have to reject the claim or accept all claims everywhere'.

What do you suppose a ghost/spirit is made of? What elements do you think it might be made from?

misskatamari · 12/08/2013 20:30

I don't think ghosts exist so I don't have any scientific idea of what they are made from. They might exists, I don't know. Maybe they are made of something we don't yet understand or maybe they don't exist. Scientific ideas change as we learn more about the world and gather more evidence.

misskatamari · 12/08/2013 20:45

I've been thinking about this after seeing the post on what happens when we die.

If ghosts do exist (and I mean that in the fact that there are things which people see and we call ghosts) then I personally don't think that they are the spirit of a dead person walking the Earth. If anything I would potentially agree with the ideas further up the thread of a kid of "echo" which someone who is more sensitive to such things if picking up on. Again that is just how it would make sense to me without any actual evidence to base it on.

The idea of infrasounds is also very interesting and could also be used to explain a lot of the things people experience as supernatural.

I don't like the idea of ghosts/spirits being around and able to communicate (e.g through a psychic) despite lots of people believing in that. One because of lack if evidence and two because I don't like to think that after we die we just wait around watching the living - boring!!!

As I said I'm not here to debate whether ghosts exist or try to convince anyone yes or no. I think yes I believe people have experiences where they feel/see things that can't necessarily be easily explained - and those things are often called ghosts. What they are and the reasons for them I don't know.

daftdame · 12/08/2013 20:56

head There was a point in history before sound equipment existed, or was even imagined. So the people who could hear high frequency sound would have seemed odd.

What they had to build on came through thought and observation, or indeed revelation! I'm just saying there is much yet to be discovered...or be revealed to us.

headinhands · 12/08/2013 21:07

Again we have no reason to think ghosts are real so no analogy is going to make it any more logical. Suppose I tell you insects can learn to talk in English to us and that as yet we just don't have the equipment to detect it, but like discovering high and low frequencies we may do later on. We could say that about anything I could possibly imagine. No, for me i'll stick to where the evidence is and points to otherwise again I need to give credence to everything anyone can suggest.

headinhands · 12/08/2013 21:13

Furthermore we already have adequate explanations for supposed paranormal experiences. Without good evidence it would be sensible and logical not to look for another explanation. Occam's razor and all that jazz.

daftdame · 12/08/2013 21:15

Yes, but I do have restraints, for me the Bible is Truth. For you I expect 'scientific proof' is truth. That is not enough for me, since 'scientific proof' is fallible...

misskatamari · 12/08/2013 21:42

That's you're prerogative headinhands. If I want to believe in ghosts and unicorns though I am happy to do so, if that is what I think makes sense to me.

Not that that was even my point. Just don't like non-facts being said to be facts.

headinhands · 12/08/2013 21:44

Science being fallible and open to change is what makes it so good. Science will adapt as new evidence/information comes to light.

I'm not a scientist or sciencey but I am obviously very grateful to all the benefits that science has conferred. Like this! You could be in Timbuktoo for all I know.

headinhands · 12/08/2013 21:49

The long gone op said she was sure she was seeing ghosts. Are you equally happy for another poster to say they are sure there are no ghosts?

daftdame · 12/08/2013 21:53

But if Truth is revealed by God to us, we need to thank God and not Science, for advancements.

misskatamari · 12/08/2013 22:07

Yes I am perfectly happy with that.

misskatamari · 12/08/2013 22:08

but there are tho, aren't there...

headinhands · 12/08/2013 22:10

daftme, I'd love to discuss the bible with you but we should probably meet on a different thread. I'll go and make one...

headinhands · 12/08/2013 22:13

No there isn't. :P

janji · 13/08/2013 04:11

Worked in a very old school myself. We had a ghost! The building was built in the days of open fires in classrooms, many of which could still be seen despite being bricked or boarded up. I would often feel little tugs on my trousers only to spin around and no one there. In a class full of children, all of the (very high) windows slammed shut despite it being impossible or the wind to do so (they opened inwards not outwards). My colleague was teaching a class of y6 children when she and the class heard a male voice asking if it was clocking off time yet? The school has a history of one of its original builders dying from an accident whilst co strutting the school over 100 yrs ago! As teachers we just had to make excuses to the children but they all witnessed these odd events.

garlicagain · 13/08/2013 04:48

I don't know what to make of your stories, janji, but it's quite fun to see a dead thread brought to life before our very eyes :)

Head - "it either exists or it doesn't" - this is no longer true, is it, in physics? It can exist, then not exist, then exist again! Not only that, but it can do that in many different places at the same time! I love introducing a bit of quantum theory to 'faith' threads; things go so very loopy, so very quickly ...

... just throwing Schroedinger's cat among the ghostly pigeons ...

misskatamari · 13/08/2013 06:46

Personally I don't know whether I "believe" in ghosts etc however I do love a good ghost story and am not really concerned with jumping in trying to credit/discredit them, I just find them interesting

misskatamari · 13/08/2013 06:48

And...Schrödinger's cat...alive AND dead? Errr maybe GHOST!!!

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