Do you ever get fed up of other people's views on your religion?

[GoldandOrangeAnnunziata]

I'm a Catholic.

I know the Catholic church has covered up some truly awful things. I know their attitude towards gay marriage isn't great.

But I get so bloody fed up of people assuming we are all like that. It's so upsetting. The Church does wonderful work too. It seems like every thread on here about Catholicism just gets bogged down in this vile hatred.

:(

I get fed up of people who think they're being really clever by talking about the 'sky fairy'. It got old a long time ago. Ditto 'But you don't keep to all the laws in Leviticus about stuff that's forbidden, so you're just picking and choosing! LULZ'

Also I know it's a bit niche, but it winds me up when people think 'evangelical' is the same thing as 'fundamentalist' or 'extremist'.

"'But you don't keep to all the laws in Leviticus about stuff that's forbidden, so you're just picking and choosing"

Well, maybe if you explained in a comprehensible way why you're not, people would stop asking? Just a thought.........

I should have said, despite explanations from people about why this is, about the new covenant vs the old covenant, how Jesus changed things etc.

I forgot to ask, I also give them a quiz which includes the question "For Christians, which is the most important festival?"

night lurker

I've just been reading about the history of the Mormon church, interesting stuff. Correct me if I'm wrong, but is it the only branch of Christianity that doesn't see the Bible as the only 'rules' to follow, but recognises revalations and expects there to be more in the future? I found that a really interesting concept.

I know the Lafferty murderers were excomunicated but I wanted to ask a question. It is not my intent to offend, just something I'm interested in.

Id someone claims to have a revelation that another person should be killed then how do you know it is or is not true?

If someone murders someone and claims 'God told me to do it', it is generally percieved as mental illness or lies, but that has got to be harder if you are used to people recievving revalations from God.

One of the men in the car at the Lafferty murders though God would tell them at the last minute that he didn't want a death and that it was a test, like Abraham.

I'm not saying this very well.

Basically, if you have a revelation yourself that is one thing. If someone else tells you they have had a revelation and you go how is it established (if it is) that this is a true revelation?

ballroom yes I get annoyed about the branding round of the term evangelical, and in fact fundamentalist. Taking the etymology of the words to their origin, they simply mean telling the news of the gospel, and believing the fundamentals of the Christian faith. In that case, I'm an evangelical fundamentalist

As it is though we need to either claim back the words, and I'm not sure that is possible, or move on to new ways of describing and naming ourselves. The terms post-evangelical, emergent etc are often used more now and are perhaps more helpful. It frustrates me though....'fundamentalists' are actually anything but, in their unhelpful interpretations of the bible - violence, hatred, greed...hmm, wonder what their claimed leader would have to say about that?

Nightlurker, I'm interested in the differences in doctrine between the christian and mormon church. Have I got it right that mormons do not believe in the Trinity but believe in Jesus as the son of God and the resurrection? Apologies if not! :)

I should have said, despite explanations from people about why this is, about the new covenant vs the old covenant, how Jesus changed things etc."

I actually understand all that. Still doesn't explain why it's OK to pick qnd choose from Leviticus and St Paul and all the other prescriptive, instructional texts.

I suppose it depends what is being picked and chosen. Most Christians would agree on certain fundamentals of faith which are not movable, ie what is laid out in the creeds, for example. From there on in, a lot would say that the bible is a book of many parts, and not meant to be taken as a literal rule book - if so, we'd all be wearing clothes of one fabric only, never cutting our hair. These were all laws made by a people to cope with living in that time and culture. In this case, to pick and choose any such now would not be in keeping with reading it in its context. The ten commandments are different in their summing up of what most people would regard as a moral code, give or take a couple - most Christians would uphold this, but this is not picking and choosing.

There's more of a case to argue I think with cherry picking New Testament verses and saying that 'this is how we should live', notably with some of Paul's passages. I would argue that some of these passages have been lifted out of context and used to justify misogyny, oppression, homophobia and all sorts of other nasty things. If read as a whole, and placed in context, alongside educating oneself about such context, things can look very different.

So basically, I think there are central non negotiable tenets, which are not picking and choosing, they are upholding the creed and how the first Christians saw their belief. There is much in the bible to be misread and misunderstood, and unless it is read as it was written, taking into account its audience, we can't claim to know what it is saying for us. We cannot claim bits of it for our own purposes or to back up our own agendas.

I often lurk with interest on these threads but have never posted until now, mainly because I don?t tend to talk about my faith with others much and also don?t feel the need to justify what I believe in.

Re HOL, I have big issues with the House of Lords full stop and believe there should be complete reform of it, the elements that represent the C of E are just the tip of the iceburg of what needs to change there!

I find it frustrating when people state that if you are of X religion then you must believe in Y and Z otherwise you are cherry picking or somehow cheating. I am a Catholic. I am a socialist. I believe in gay marriage. I believe that priests shouldn't be celibate. I believe in contraception. I believe the institutions of the various world religions have been responsible for some great wrongs. I also believe they have been responsible for some wonderful things, from their involvement in education for the masses in the past to the charity work they do day in day out still today. I don?t believe the religious have the monopoly on doing good, I believe that non-believers can have a moral code that is every bit as strong as believers. I live in the shadow of the Vatican in Rome (10 mins walk) and am very much aware of the stench of corruption and the wheeling and dealing that can come from within its walls. I don?t feel these different beliefs I have present me with any great dilemma in calling myself a Catholic as I take my faith from the creed, from the NT as a whole and from what I feel within myself. The rest of it is open to interpretation and is greatly the result of man-made institutions. I am not a regular mass goer but when I go I find I take a great deal of peace and strength from the ritual. If that makes me a catholic-lite or a hypocrite then so be it. We have freedom to choose and so I do!

banana I like a lot of what you say.also,the pope isn't the only person to be taken in by manipulative child abusers ...back in the day, no-one could really believe such things..[I know that's hard to believe nowadays]...there are plenty of social work and teaching folk who got away with it for years and were moved on for a 'fresh start' by their well-meaning and 'taken in' co-workers.....but folk aren't critisising these bodies to the same extent as the RC church and the pope

ps the inverted commas around "taken in" are a typo

nightlurker

Thank you for taking the time to explain a bit more.

Yes reading about the Lafferty case it seemed to me they made up an excuse to do a dreadful thing. How often has that happened in history?

Great post Banana ! I am a Catholic and feel exactly the same way. I too rarely post as the threads tend to go round in circles, but just wanted to respond to yours.