Do you ever get fed up of other people's views on your religion?

[GoldandOrangeAnnunziata]

I'm a Catholic.

I know the Catholic church has covered up some truly awful things. I know their attitude towards gay marriage isn't great.

But I get so bloody fed up of people assuming we are all like that. It's so upsetting. The Church does wonderful work too. It seems like every thread on here about Catholicism just gets bogged down in this vile hatred.

:(

@technodad I think madhairy is answering Seekers question: How would you like the conversationnto go, madhairy?

I don't think she has suggested that Seeker is disrespectful.

Let's just deal with the Lords Spiritual, shall we?

Ok, the House of Lords is not the legislature. It can amend legislation, but it cannot originate it. The House of Commons can (and from time to time does) over-rule the decisions of the House of Lords.

There are all sorts of people in the House of Lords. Most of them are there because their ancestors did something to please the monarch, or they lent the monarch some money, or some other reason of that ilk. Compared to Hereditary Peers, The Lords Spiritual who at some stage in their lives will have been parish priests, seeing people at the sharpest end of government policy, sat by deathbeds, comforted the sick and bereaved and desolate, served in soup kitchens, run playgroups, visited in care homes (this is not an exhaustive list) have at least a mandatory experience of the real world and of people's problems in it. Is it most clearly the Lords Spiritual who are exercising unwarranted and unqualified influence over the rule of the nation?

Should the House of Lords be reformed? Absolutely. In a reformed House of Lords I should have no problem with the inclusion of major figures from all recognised religious groups, as well as secular figures who have thought deeply on ethical questions.

@ethelb -- I think Madhairday is referring to the shortening of her name in a very rude way. A poster did this (using the same shortening) on another thread and it was clearly a way of being rude.

My point is that MadHairday was just responding to Seeker's q.

I was cross that technodad was trying to take madhairday's post out of context.

Anyway, lets not let him derail the thread.

agreed!

Seeker: I admire your dedication to logic

:)

That was it niminy, I was surprised at seeker, as we usually engage in courteous debate together.

Blimey, that is a little sensitive!!!!! She just shortened your username. Like people call me Techno or TD.

Oh we'll, back to the thread!

There was a history, dear techno

shortening names of course does not bother me. Most people call me MHD. It would be vair strange to take offence over something such. I'm not that off the wall

Blimey!

Since when has shortening somebody's username been disrespectful?

I'm offending everyone at the moment. Time for me to leave the thread, I think. Have fun.

I'm sorry I derailed this thread, but I did feel it was a deliberate play on what Novack did. If not, then I am sorry.

I have no idea what you're talking about. And I do rather take exception to being accused of being deliberately disrespectful and unkind. I never am.

But hey ho.

Ok. Sorry :(

can we get back to criticising Catholics now please (that was a joke by the way)

OK atheist with pagan tendancies here.

I also from time to time teach a unit of 'Equality and diversity in the care sector' and it brings up a lot of what you are all saying. I tend to teach it as the teaching of X says a,b,c but not everyone follows all of. So not all muslims abstain from alcohol, that sort of thing.

I also teach that it doesn't matter what someone believes you must respect that belief. If you ever have to remove a religious symbol, say to wash someone, always ask first.

Things I've been told be stroppy teenages:

If you are RC you are not a Christian.
Baptism and Christenings are totally different things.
You should always allow an RC priest on to a hospital ward, but an Iman only in office hours.

I'm usually asked at some point. 'what are you miss?' and if I tell them I'm atheist then they ask 'So what stops you murdering people then?' and other similar questions.

I refer to teach this unit in multicultutral classrooms so that, if they want to, students can explain their own beliefs, and how some things are cultural such as covering your head.

By the end of the unit I hope I have educated them to not make assumptions about a person because of their faith, dress or skin colour. I hope they have also learned to treat people and their beliefs with respect.

I also try to get them to examine their own beliefs and the impact that might have on them / their working lives.

An example I often use.

You are a staff nurse. You are in a ward where an elderly Muslim gentleman is being treated for end stage cancer. He is in vast amounts of pain. He does not speak English.

Earlier in the day the doctor has prescribed morphine. The gentleman's family have said he is devout and does not believe he should recive opiates.

Questions I ask the students.

You know you can give this man medication that will take away his pain. How do you feel about not giving him a painkiller that you know will work and that has already been prescribed. Would that upset you?

Should you give the morphine and not tell him or his family what it is? What they don't know won't harm them and it will stop the gentleman's pain.

Do you accept what his family say at face value?

This usually develops into quite a heated discussion.

Well I'm going to buck the trend and say that I like hearing other peoples' views on my religion!

I was brought up in a very multicultural place, am mixed race and within my extended family have a wonderful cornucopia of religious affiliations / identities / beliefs, and no end of friendly discussion about it all. I love all that.

Also, I think that people who aren't me can make some interesting observations and insights that sometimes I'm too close to notice. And ask different questions to me, which helps me enormously to think more broadly about my faith. So bring it on, I say. As long as you don't go on about me being thick, which is just boring and provokes me to prove my credentials, which is bad for my soul.

:) Something like that, Crescent! I was being a bit tongue-in-cheek. I now that lots of things are bad for my soul though, so yes, I suppose it is a kind of Christian asceticism (hides wine bottle).

I know, not now! I must learn to proofread, I must learn to proofread, I must learn to proofread etc etc etc...

Yes Holo, that's exactly it and what I was badly trying to say. I am happy (and welcome) hearing people's views on my faith, however polar opposite to mine, but when it comes down to personal cries of 'thick and brainwashed' it does wear a bit thin. Thankfully no one on this thread has done this, but it happens.

I have pondered on your question seeker, about how I'd like the conversation to go, as I'd stroppily remarked on not wanting to debate forever faith schools, HoL bishops, etc etc. I think what I was thinking (and I'm not sure, I was in drug haze at time) was when there is an OP saying something like 'how can you say there is a God when there is all this suffering in the world?' I feel like getting onto CofE schools and their admissions processes and arguable influencing of children often derails from the original question, as we get all huffed up talking about how we think or do not think schools have an unfair influence in today's society. I want to talk about my experience of God, to talk about suffering, to fully engage with the question. However, I can also see your point, because I guess in exploring such a question we cannot discount history and what Christianity in this country has led to in terms of suffering, and this may then lead to talking about how it can be perceived that it still negatively influences this country. I don't know. I guess I'd like the conversation to take a different and surprising turn instead of the tried and tested one. Any suggestions welcome

I don't mind people questioning my faith - it is better for it! However, I get really upset when quotes and actons are taken out of context or the argument is based on inaccuracy and ignorance.

Politics will always play a part in our lives and we will be naive to think we can separate it from decision making and law.

I agree MHD that it would be good to move beyond CofE faith schools and the Lords Spiritual. Many people on this Board don't live in England / don't belong to the CofE and so it would be good to move beyond these issues.