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Philosophy/religion

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Cool Choirs, Clappy Choruses, Cringy Coffee: Religion Chat Thread No 5

999 replies

madhairday · 09/09/2012 16:16

I thought seeing as our other thread has gone somewhere into the oblivion that is old MN pages, I would start us up again anew for a new term. This is a place for those who are Christians (and anyone who's not, we're not an exclusive little club) Grin to chat about life, theology, church, any other stuff and of course Graham Kendrick, as nickel would not forgive me if I forgot to mention him Grin

So all welcome, old and new, it would be fun to chat and chew over anything that comes to mind. Lurkers say hello!

Anyone got a nice juicy topic to get the ball rolling then? Or if not come say hi anyway and tell us how you are doing. :)

OP posts:
madhairday · 15/09/2012 13:10

Yes nickel I remember from last year them sharing a birthday, bizarre!

OP posts:
nickelcognito · 15/09/2012 13:27
Grin
MaryBS · 17/09/2012 08:08

Wow, and it happens every year, what a coincidence THAT is :o :o :o

DS will be 11 this Saturday! Eeek!

madhairday · 17/09/2012 09:44
Grin

Morning all.

OP posts:
DutchOma · 17/09/2012 10:23

You are too young to become 'sarcastic in your old age' Mary

nickelcognito · 17/09/2012 11:30

Mary, down. [stern]

Grin

(disclaimer: i didn't remember it from last year.)

I had a lovely weekend - got on the train to Nottingham Saturday evening, spent the night at my parents', then off to st martin's in the morning to watch my surrogate nephew being baptised.
it was lovely.
just DD and I went - DH couldn't book the time when I had to buy the ticket (cheaper train fare in advance) because Asst Organist was out of action with a bad back at the time of booking. As it happened, he was all better in time for the weekend, but DH couldn't risk it.
Shame, Friend mentioned it would have been nice to force him to play!

St Martin's has gone very very very HC now - the new "organist" (Music Director) does not like the organ, and prefers the keyboards and bands and stuff.
he's got a 4-lady-with-microphone-each-why-it-sounds-bloody-awful singing group, and he stands fiddling around with the keyboard.
he did play 2 things on the organ, but according to friend, he plays as little as possible on the organ: thus creating this chain of events:
organ isn't used much
organ starts to sound rough
music man says that organ is rough so he can't use it
organ doesn't get tuned because it's not used
back to beginning and start again.

Friend reckons it's his very sneaky way of making sure the organ is closed down permanently, because the church can say that they can't afford to sort the organ out.

It's so horrid that this happens in so many churches these days.
mainly because so many pianists are scared of organs!!

MaryBS · 17/09/2012 12:02

Aspies don't understand sarcasm, I don't know WHAT you mean, DO Wink

SESthebrave · 17/09/2012 12:16

Morning all!

Nickel - I read your "HC" initially as "High Church" and thought it most odd that it had led to keyboards, microphones and singing group. Then realised it was "Happy Clappy" Grin
It is sad about organs not being used. Ours normally gets used for 2 of our Sunday services and in our family / HC service it sometimes gets used if we have a suitable final hymn.

Blue - how did this weekend go?

Happy birthday to all the DC celebrating. I can't keep track of all DH's nieces and nephews nevermind MN birthdays!

nickelcognito · 17/09/2012 12:19
Grin

I think it's important that there is the option - it means that you can continue with recitals, visiting organists/musicians etc.

they had an organ recital that same afternoon - proving how important it is that the organ is kept well.

MaryBS · 17/09/2012 12:37

I thought it meant High Church too Blush

nickelcognito · 17/09/2012 13:15

In my mind, High Church is the default and HC means happy-clappy!

Grin
madhairday · 17/09/2012 13:24

Hahahaha at '4-lady-with-microphone-each-why-it-sounds-bloody-awful singing group' Grin [snigger] - I do actually know what you mean looking at you, church I go to and it's too much - better to have two voices and more instruments although happy if organ left unused Grin

OP posts:
Bluetinkerbell · 17/09/2012 13:27

SES I went really well! One of the ladies on the pastoral panel went to our lay reader and said that what we had done for the prayers (with post-its) was exactly what they wanted to happen more in church Grin

I did sing an octave too low in one of the hymns that I was singing solo in but all in all it was a very nice service! Next one up is Harvest Wink

What we have noticed is that with different priest coming in every Sunday we do need to give them really clear instructions of what to do and say, as not all of them know what to say at certain times. The one yesterday didn't welcome people and just went into what I had written down in the booklet.

Bluetinkerbell · 17/09/2012 14:25

Can you tell me how baptisms are done in your parish? Now that our priest has left we noticed that he had stripped down the out of Eucharist baptism service to the bare minimum and we had feedback from people that they felt (god)parents weren't very involved in the service.
So a few questions:
Can people choose their own Bible readings? If yes, have you got set ones they can choose from or just any?
Can they use non-Biblical readings, like a poem?
Do you have hymns/music?

What do you do for baptism preparation? And afterwards? Are people being invited back to a service?

Just trying to get some ideas together to see how we can move this forwards in the parish (and practising for later on Wink)

nickelcognito · 17/09/2012 15:00

i don't mind 4 women if the microphone is placed equi-distant from all of them. why do they have one each?
the choir never needed that.

we have a printed order of service that has a couple of optional variations throughout, and handwritten on the priest's one are little bits here and there where it is made very clear we sing this or that, or do the traditional lord's prayer etc.

our baptisms are done by happyclappy old priest, and they're hideous. he still puts in the creed, even though it's in the baptism, and a whole sermon, where he mumbles then shouts randomly, and it's a full-length service with extras. no wonder they never come back Hmm
baptism families are allowed to choose a hymn, and if they know what they're doing (ie if they're a church-already family) they can have more input.

they're always on the 4th sunday of the month, so DH always chooses well-known or baptism hymns.

nickelcognito · 17/09/2012 15:02

a church warden and youth representative meet with parents - and show a video at their home.
they are encouraged to come to at least a few services before the big event, and they are always conducted in a sunday service unless there's a bloody good reason why not.

Bluetinkerbell · 17/09/2012 15:04

nickel I like your 'bloody good reason why not' here they are given the option of during the service or at 12.15pm... most go for the last one Hmm

nickelcognito · 17/09/2012 15:26

the way we view it is they're being welcomed into the family of the church - it makes no sense why they wouldn't want the family of the church to be there and support.

Bluetinkerbell · 17/09/2012 15:37

I know :) and I agree!

nickelcognito · 17/09/2012 15:40

although my little sis is painfully shy and chose hers as a private one.

(not relating this to any observation that they all went/go to a cofe primary school but never go to church...)

niminypiminy · 17/09/2012 20:18

but Nickel, how can that possibly be? Grin

Tuo · 17/09/2012 20:41

Oh bother... typed a long reply and just lost it!

Basically, as far as I can tell, if you get baptised at the cathedral where I go you get the normal Sunday morning 'family' Eucharist, with the usual hymns, readings and what-have-you. The order of service is printed on a sheet, but I assume it's Common Worship, as that's what's normally used for that service (there's a later BCP service too, but the baptisms tend to be done at the CW one). I can't tell you for sure whether it's also possible to have a 'private' baptism (the website says 'For information about baptisms [etc.], contact XXX [Canon Pastor]'), but I'm not aware of any having taken place. Mind you, it's not a local parish church, so I guess it doesn't get the 'passing trade' of those who don't attend regularly but want their child baptised because it's 'the done thing'.

DD2 was baptised in May, but obviously her experience wasn't typical, as she was confirmed at the same time, so the baptism was (I was going to say 'just', but that would be reducing it to something unimportant, which it wasn't) a prelude to the confirmation in that case, and she was part of a 'job lot' (3 girls were baptised, and then about 10 children and adults were confirmed). Also she was old enough to make her own responses and we didn't have godparents... so all a bit different.

I can't say for sure whether, in normal circs, the baptisee's family would have any input into the choice of music or readings, but I assume not. Certainly the readings have always been those set for that Sunday (OT/Epistle plus Gospel) and never anything non-Biblical.

At the church we went to in the US, Baptisms were done four times a year on the feast of Christ's Baptism, Easter Vigil, Pentecost and All Saints. We were there for the last of these and members of the congregation were also invited to go to the font and renew their own baptism by taking a little water and crossing themselves. (Which created a certain amount of angst for my two girls who were not baptised and didn't know what to do...)

I realise that from the above I have made baptisms in my church sound rather joyless and 'conveyor belt' (normal service, bit of water, bish, bash, bosh and off you go...), but it's really not like that at all, and they have felt very special (not just DD's, which was obviously special, but all those I've been present at) and definitely joyful and welcoming. I guess it's just not in the nature of the particular place where I go to move very far from the set order of service (largely sung), choir, incense and candles (see above), etc., and you probably would choose to have your child baptised there only if that's the kind of thing you were after.

SESthebrave · 17/09/2012 21:20

Baptisms in our church are usually done after the main morning service and are "just" the baptism. There is enough demand that there is normally one each week and sometimes if more than one family request the same date, two done together.

Personally I would much rather they were done as part of the main family service and if you particularly want that, it can be requested.
The Deacon / Priest normally have their own set readings and hymns but it is possible to have personal input too.

In terms of preparation, there are 2 evenings for the parents to attend to ensure that they fully understand what baptism is and what they as parents and the godparents will be taking on.

Once a year, there is a weekend when all those baptised in the preceeding 12 months are invited forwards with their parents in the main family service and prayed for and presented with a small gift, usually a crucifix.

One question I have about baptism is why so many people call it christening? Why is that term used, even by some churches when there is nothing in the Bible that refers to this term?

Sharksandfishes · 17/09/2012 21:52

We had our Assistant Minister's daughter baptised on Sunday :)
Our baptisms are done as part of the service, whether it is the 10am or 5pm family services.

Parents (and I think godparents) who are not members of the church are expected to do our Simply Christianity course which is a 4 week course based on Luke's gospel.

We will be getting DS2 baptised soon, its weird because in the UK, when we had DS1 baptised, although we attended church, looking back I wasn't a Christian. We had the big party, all our relatives attended, etc. This time, it feels more important to get the baptism done. I'm not bothered about having a party and our relatives aren't here anyway! Grin

Does anyone's church do dedications rather than baptisms? We have a choice!

niminypiminy · 17/09/2012 22:13

Baptisms in our place are done in the main - no, only - service, which then doesn't include communion. I can only remember one in the last year Sad. There are times, and thinking about baptisms this is one of them, that it feels like our church is dying Sad Sad