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Original poster

Cool Choirs, Clappy Choruses, Cringy Coffee: Religion Chat Thread No 5

999 replies

madhairday · 09/09/2012 16:16

I thought seeing as our other thread has gone somewhere into the oblivion that is old MN pages, I would start us up again anew for a new term. This is a place for those who are Christians (and anyone who's not, we're not an exclusive little club) to chat about life, theology, church, any other stuff and of course Graham Kendrick, as nickel would not forgive me if I forgot to mention him

So all welcome, old and new, it would be fun to chat and chew over anything that comes to mind. Lurkers say hello!

Anyone got a nice juicy topic to get the ball rolling then? Or if not come say hi anyway and tell us how you are doing. :)

OP posts:

Bluetinkerbell · 14/01/2013 22:19

nickel I can understand your annoyance! Hope you find something to fill your interview space!

We had a meeting about our church website at our house.
Churchwarden stayed a bit longer as he needed to talk about me sharing communion with DD1...
Since she's been going to Sunday club, she doesn't come up to communion worth me, she goes with the children to get a blessing. I break a piece of my wafer and share it with her, by giving it to her when she's back in the pew art front of church. Apparently people have been commenting about it, so now I will have to do it 'in secret' so nobody notices! Grmbl!

DandyDan · 15/01/2013 11:24

Bluetinkerbell, before attending Sunday Club, did your daughter receive communion or did you just do the "sharing the wafer with her" moment at the communion rail? Also, how old is she?

Many churches allow for "communion before confirmation" for children who are regular and committed attenders at worship. There are short courses for child + parent to attend so that the meaning and the significance of communion is understood. Some of our younger children in church (aged 7+) are now communicants.

Rather than it being a matter for you to resolve with a churchwarden, it is maybe something the church council could be discussing? Sharing a wafer "secretly" when it symbolises communion with Christ is not an ideal situation either to be in yourself or to be sharing with your daughter.

Perhaps the timing of when the Sunday Club come into church is also something to consider: some church members used to voice to me that they liked to see the youngsters all go up together to get a blessing but my personal opinion is that this doesn't integrate them into the body of the congregation. They have spent time at their Sunday club together as a unit but they are also part of the united body of Christ within the church and parents in particular can feel very strongly about missing out on "going up together as a family". Going up as a body of youngsters to receive a blessing marks them out as different from the regular communicating members of the church, in a way that is divisive and more unhelpful.

In former years (though I'm talking the 60's and 70's here) separating the young people in this way was partly due to the fact that a number of children would be "sent" to church by their parents and hence had no-one to go and sit with once they were back in the church service after Sunday school/Junior Church etc - it was easier for the Junior Church leaders to re-enter and sit with their phalanx of youngsters. This is very unlikely to be the case now.

Our young people come back in to church either at the start of the eucharistic prayer or at its close where the presiding minister pauses to wait for them to enter just before the Lord's Prayer [I am assuming this is a C of E church? apologies if not]. All children go to sit with their parents/carers before going up for communion/blessing and some of these are pre-confirmation communicants. Ask your vicar/minister about this possibility.

nickelbabe · 15/01/2013 12:28

Blue - is your DD confirmed?
if she is then she can have communion when she goes with the children.

if she isn't, then she really shouldn't be having your wafer anyway.
(this is obviously a personal thing for you- if she understands what it is, then i don't have a problem with it, but the church has a funny way of everything having to be exactly as prescribed by the rules)

nickelbabe · 15/01/2013 12:30

i agree with dandy about that, too - they should be going up to the communion rail at the same time as the rest of the congregation, not separately.
they are part of the church and should be represented as such.

if the Sunday Club is currently not back in church in time for communion, then they should be re-arranged so that they are.

Tuo · 15/01/2013 12:33

Blue... Our church has just done something similar to what DandyDan mentions. There was a short course, which was held during the normal Junior Church times over about 4 weeks (but led by members of the clergy, rather than the normal Junior Church leaders) and this was followed by a simple service of Admission to Communion before Confirmation. A number of children were admitted - I'm not sure of the ages, but probably between about 5 and 10; I'm not sure if there was a minimum age, as DD2 was already confirmed earlier in the year. I'm not sure if the decision to allow this (i.e. communion before confirmation) was taken by the individual church or at the diocescan level, but it seems to have been popular.

At the (Anglican) church we went to in the US, communion was offered to anyone who had been baptised, including very young children/toddlers.

Our Junior Church comes back in at the Peace, which seems to work well.

I hope you can resolve this.

Original poster

MadHairDay · 15/01/2013 12:57

Our dc also did the communion before confirmation course at 7 years old, but tbh we would have been happy to share the communion with them from much younger, as we don't believe there is a minimum age, and believe in communion as a sacrament, in which God does the work (do we exclude people with profound learning difficulties from communion? - of course not.)

So I'm kind of with you on sharing your wafer, but unfortunately it also depends on how your church views it. I agree also with the others that children should not be separate when it comes to communion - if possible, they should go up with their family, I think. Could you talk with the vicar about when the children come in and how they are integrated for communion? Then you would be able to share with her at the rail, which would seem best if possible?

OP posts:

Bluetinkerbell · 15/01/2013 13:14

DD1 is 4. We waited to have her baptized until she understood what was happening and from then on I shared my wafer with her, as she clearly voiced she wanted to share communion. Who am I to deny her that?
We're currently in vacancy, so no vicar to discuss this with. Church warden knows I want to propose communion before confirmation, but has asked me to wait until we have a priest, which will hopefully be the summer...
I grew up in a very progressive Roman Catholic church where everyone received communion.
CW suggested I go up together with the children so I can share at the altar rail with her. Which is what I will do now.

nickelbabe · 15/01/2013 13:18

yes, I think given your DD's age, it would be better for you both to go up to the rail together - especially as it makes more sense, from her point of view, if you do it in that setting.

If you do it in your pew, then it's just like sharing a wafer, and not in the spirit of the thing :)

nickelbabe · 15/01/2013 13:33

Who wants to write an article for my feb-mar-apr Magazone?

I normally ask Mary, but I'm always aware that it's a mega cheek to constantly ask (sorry Mary )
so I thought one of you others might like to (of course, Mary, if you do want to supply another one,. I won't turn you down :) )

niminypiminy · 15/01/2013 14:12

At my church we have communion for all - as long as the child is able to eat bread then she or he can have communion.

I think the incumbent's view is that there are only two sacraments (baptism and communion), so as far as I know during his tenure nobody has ever been confirmed.

This works for our congregation. We have people who can't read and write, we have people with profound learning disabilities, we have large numbers of children attending without their parents. I think I'm with MHD and Blue - if grace is anything it should be freely available to all, without them having to 'earn it' by doing a confirmation course. But I think confirmation is a sacrament, and I think that confirming your commitment to follow Christ is a wonderful step to take.

Anyway Blue I hope you get it sorted out.

Nickel what kind of article would you like? (Not that I have one up my sleeve, but am wondering what sort of thing you normally have.)

Original poster

MadHairDay · 15/01/2013 14:20

I was going to ask nickel the same thing niminy - what do you want the article to be on? You're welcome to use my new wine magazine one from last year if you want one on healing etc? I do like writing so wouldn't mind having a bash sometime if you like. :)

OP posts:

nickelbabe · 15/01/2013 14:27

any article will be fine - it can be religious, or about a hobby, or anything really :)

I have all sorts of things in there.

Mary usually gives me an article based on that time of the church year
but in the last issue, I had reviews of the Olympics, woolly hugs, Jump magazine, etc.

nickelbabe · 15/01/2013 14:28

healing sounds good. :)

Original poster

MadHairDay · 15/01/2013 14:51

I'll send you one if you like - not sure if it would be the right length, but feel free to chop bits!!

OP posts:

nickelbabe · 15/01/2013 16:17

ooh, thank you :)

Original poster

MadHairDay · 15/01/2013 16:23

I can't find your email address, can you pm/fb it to me :)

OP posts:

nickelbabe · 15/01/2013 17:02

okay :)

MaryBS · 16/01/2013 10:48

LOL just seen that Nickel's getting you all roped in! :o (no, I don't think its a cheek at all, it usually involves dragging out "one I've prepared earlier", thats all... :o )

nickelbabe · 16/01/2013 13:07

cool, I'll await your email, if you would be able to (no obligation, but i would be very grateful)
:)

MaryBS · 16/01/2013 14:17

What's your deadline? And would you recognise it if I'd sent it to you before?

nickelbabe · 16/01/2013 17:23

thank you :)

i have received it and emailed you back :)

I'm pretty sure I haven't seen it before - but I started singing a totally different song

Tuo · 18/01/2013 20:36

I never get into the whole science vs. religion debates on here, mostly because I don't believe that the two are mutually exclusive (so I don't believe that the rightness of scientific fact proves that my faith is wrong), and also because I haven't got the time to engage properly, and I hate to post and walk away because that is sometimes taken as 'not being able to defend your position'.

However, I was suddenly reminded of those sorts of threads yesterday when I was driving to work listening to 'In Our Time' with Melvyn Bragg on Radio 4. They were talking about comets, and one of the interviewees was describing something called the Oort Cloud, which (simplifying massively and probably getting it quite wrong...) is where comets hang out until they shoot across the sky and do their cometty thing. (Have I mentioned that I am not a scientist? Whaddya mean, you could tell? ) They were describing this cloud and how it works quite happily until Melvyn asked some question or other, and was told 'Well, of course, we don't know that the Oort Cloud exists. We can't prove it exists. We just believe that it does.'.

Indeed!

niminypiminy · 18/01/2013 21:27

Love that! I might even go and listen to the programme on listen again. I get drawn into those threads but I'm rubbish at them and nearly always end up walking off in a huff. Sometimes I think myself it's because I can't defend my own positions.

I've got two essays to write for the DDO - one on priesthood and another on mission - the latter is the first draft of my written statement that will get discussed at the BAP. I've been staring into the computer for days now, utterly blocked and freaked out about it all. What if I can't write them? Finding it really hard to pray as well - it's horrid. I know it will pass, but getting through it, well, yuck.

KayHarker · 18/01/2013 21:36

Mind if an ex-Christian not quite an atheist but is open to new life pops in and lurks for a bit?

nickelbabe · 18/01/2013 21:43

hi kay. :)
yes please do lurk. we don't debate the existance of god or beliefs but most other subjects are good

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