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Philosophy/religion

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Cool Choirs, Clappy Choruses, Cringy Coffee: Religion Chat Thread No 5

999 replies

madhairday · 09/09/2012 16:16

I thought seeing as our other thread has gone somewhere into the oblivion that is old MN pages, I would start us up again anew for a new term. This is a place for those who are Christians (and anyone who's not, we're not an exclusive little club) Grin to chat about life, theology, church, any other stuff and of course Graham Kendrick, as nickel would not forgive me if I forgot to mention him Grin

So all welcome, old and new, it would be fun to chat and chew over anything that comes to mind. Lurkers say hello!

Anyone got a nice juicy topic to get the ball rolling then? Or if not come say hi anyway and tell us how you are doing. :)

OP posts:
nickelbabeuntiladvent · 29/11/2012 11:09

i think it's unethical too.
she was surprised by my reaction because she didn't realise what a big deal it was - i suppose she just sees it as a medal, full stop, without thinking about the implications behind it.

I sometimes feel that we get sidelined as he takes on loads of other new stuff, almost like he knows he can always come back to us when he's finished with that :(

DutchOma · 29/11/2012 12:08

And I gather you rather depend on his input, which is a pity. It would be nice to be able to say:"Well, he needs to make up his mind between us and the NearestTownchurch. If he chooses NTC he can't come back here. If he wants to be here, then he must commit to practices."
Some mothers do think that their children are so brilliant, they must have every opportunity and everything must be geared up to suit them.
He on the other hand needs to learn that the world does not revolve around him and that he needs to put in the hard graft if he wants the results.

nickelbabeuntiladvent · 29/11/2012 12:26

I really really wish I could say that.

It's more personal than that, though, because yes, we depend on his input, but also because of the amount of time and effort we've put in over the last 2¼ years, if he left to go somewhere else it would feel so deflating.

but she says that she tells him he has to make this commitment, that commitment, but then he finds another thing that he wants to do and everything is dropped so he can do it. to the end where he's got about 8 different activities on the go, and we're the first thing to be dropped because, i don't know, we're the most lenient? or we're more likely to welcome him back? or because we were the first thing he committed to? I don't know - he's always saying that he wants to stay at St M's. His mum said that she gave him the choice last month and he said he wanted to stay here.

It doesn't help that this play he's doing that takes up Friday night is only until May, so we've agreed to wait for him, but we did say we expected Sunday mornings, but so far, he's not attended a single one, and a couple of the reasons have been that he's been out to other things on Saturday nights (concerts, choirs etc that he's performing in) and he's too tired to get up on a sunday morning for us.
he still expects to be allowed to sing Once in Royal solo at 9 lessons and carols, but he's seemingly unwilling to commit himself to coming round to ours, or to the church for half an hour here and there during the week to practise choir stuff.
then his mum goes "well, we don't want to put you out" - if we were bothered about that, we wouldn't offer in the first place!
but he's got something on every single night of the week (and now on Sunday afternoons too, yet another play).
I don't even know if he'll be at the Advent carol Service this week - one of our biggest services of the year, because of this other Sunday thing.

the hardest thing about the whole situation is that he's an incredibly talented musician, (insofar as learning and picking up stuff easily and ability), so it's really hard to say "if you don't come to rehearsals you can't do xyz" because he picks stuff up ever so quickly when he does finally turn up.

We've already banned him from evensong because he won't stay for the adults' practise on evensong weeks and he won't put the time and effort in to learn the music. Of course, then we're met with "NTC has invited him to sing evensong every month because they cover that in the practices he attends"

DutchOma · 29/11/2012 14:03

Seems to me he is more trouble than he is worth, but then it is easy to say so when you are not in the situation.

DutchOma · 29/11/2012 14:11

Also, if you do have any other junior choristers it is not really fair on them if they are prepared to put in the effort.

niminypiminy · 29/11/2012 14:39

Also it might be a good life lesson for the young man (and also his mother) to learn that he is not indispensable.

nickelbabeuntiladvent · 29/11/2012 16:57

it might, you're right.
I've decided that I want him to be awarded his light blue ribbon by us, and then afterwards e can do what he chooses regarding the choir he goes to, whether he stays of goes to NTC.
the main thing is us giving him that ribbon.

DutchOma · 29/11/2012 19:41

How can you make an award to someone who is not attending?

nickelbabeuntiladvent · 30/11/2012 11:27

well, it's all to do with the Voice for Life thing.
it's only partly to do with attendance.
but yes, that's another part of why i'm so pissed off about it - we made all these special provisions for his attendance - offering extra time outside of normal church times and stuff like that, and only one so far has been taken up.
he's not been at a sunday service since October.
But it's not all him, he has to rely on his mum, and she just doesn't seem to take it seriously enough.

nickelbabeuntiladvent · 30/11/2012 11:35

and yes, i feel like we're being pressured into giving him this ribbon as soon as possible just to do it before the other bloke can muscle in.
so it's no longer on our terms - it's all been shifted to be on NTC's terms, and it cheapens it.
it's not just skill, it's commitment.

DutchOma · 30/11/2012 14:03

I'm very sorry that you are in this situation, Nickel, but I cannot see a way out of it for you, one way or the other without being mayorly p.....d off (Oma language).

It seems totally out of order to a (non-Anglican) outsider anyway, that this little brat gives you the run-around backed by his mother and THEN expects a plum role in the plum service of the year. Voice or no voice.

nickelbabeuntiladvent · 30/11/2012 14:18

yes, you've hit the nail on the head.

It would be easier to say "JC1 needs to decide where his loyalties lie. If he doesn't want to commit to St M's then we can't commit to him"
but then we still don't get the medal, and it's almost like all that hard work that DH and I have put in for the last 2 years has not been rewarded either.
But it's us who should be rewarded, not him

DutchOma · 30/11/2012 15:33

He gets rewarded for your hard work? [bhmm]

nickelbabeuntiladvent · 30/11/2012 16:22

he does, doesn't he :(

DutchOma · 30/11/2012 17:29

But in the end you have a choice as to how you deal with it.

nickelbabeuntiladvent · 02/12/2012 09:55

I'm not very good at dealing with things. :(

nickelbabeuntiladvent · 02/12/2012 09:58

must find out if he was there this morning (I'm poorly in bed)
i think i might suggest to dh that if he doesn't cometonight he might not be able to do the solo.
we have already said that he must give us at least 2 proper practice sessions before 9 lessons or he won't do it this year.

DutchOma · 02/12/2012 13:02

Sorry to hear that you are poorly, hope you get well soon.
Sounds like dh is even more kind hearted than you are where your JC1 is concerned Grin

nickelbabeuntiladvent · 02/12/2012 13:12

he is. he doesn't do confrontation!

nickelbabeuntiladvent · 02/12/2012 13:15

dh got back from church and said the new vicar had been there today. no one had expected him (his wife too).
he said they're very nice and he loves choral music :)

DutchOma · 02/12/2012 13:19

But what of JC1? Probably not as he would have said. It would have been a turn up for the book, as he hasn't been there since October.

Glad to hear about the new vicar and his love for choral music.

nickelbabeuntiladvent · 02/12/2012 13:39

no sign.
I've asked him to ring the mum this afternoon.

DutchOma · 02/12/2012 13:45

What's the betting that she says:"Sorry, but he can't make any practices and he will be singing Once in royal at NCT?"

DutchOma · 02/12/2012 13:50

Oh, and something entirely different: when does Advent actually start?

I thought it was today, with the first Sunday in Advent and so does the advent calendar that Mary posted a number of posts ago and which our pastor is also using.
But radio 3 were opening the second window on their advent calendar and a number of other people also seem to think it starts on the 1st December.

Gorgeous music on radio 3 though, listening to the early music show just now and have recorded the service from St John's as we will have visit from ds and family this pm.

MaryBS · 02/12/2012 15:01

Liturgically its today. Sometimes it starts at the end of November. But I think for Advent Calendar purposes, its always the 1st for simplicity.