Cool Choirs, Clappy Choruses, Cringy Coffee: Religion Chat Thread No 5

[madhairday]

I thought seeing as our other thread has gone somewhere into the oblivion that is old MN pages, I would start us up again anew for a new term. This is a place for those who are Christians (and anyone who's not, we're not an exclusive little club) to chat about life, theology, church, any other stuff and of course Graham Kendrick, as nickel would not forgive me if I forgot to mention him

So all welcome, old and new, it would be fun to chat and chew over anything that comes to mind. Lurkers say hello!

Anyone got a nice juicy topic to get the ball rolling then? Or if not come say hi anyway and tell us how you are doing. :)

a bit of info

cloutie - i think that's why a lot of people put in socks, gloves and scarves - it bulks it out a bit :)

I don't have any particular views on halloween - my main objection is that it's an over-commercialised American import. I feel about it a Jewish friend of mine feels about Christmas: it's fine, but it's not our festival. Our church has a Light Party which the children like because there are fireworks. I think it's a bit phoney, and it feels itself like an American import, from American evangelicalism. Basically I'm a bit meh about the whole thing.

DO, she said she thought it was despair, which I found very hard to understand. Christians though have speculated for centuries on this. Myself, having been in despair at times, felt it too much of a burden to think of my despair being an unforgiveable sin. I felt more like that the unforgiveable was demonising the Holy Spirit, which is all goodness, saying that the good that comes from the HS is from a demon. So we talked about that. It seems she didn't mean that if you felt despair you'd committed an unforgiveable sin, but I'm still not 100% sure what she did mean.

I've got the impression from somewhere that the unforgivable sin might be permanently rejecting God (Father, Son and Holy Spirit) - so if you've turned to God and believe and trust in Him (which would be through the Holy Spirit working in you) you can't be committing that sin. Will try to work out where I've got that from...

Couple of interesting discussions here, have been offline this weekend.

I don't know what she can mean by despair being the unforgivable sin, and tbh that could just pile a whole load of guilt on some very depressed people. :( Would be interested to hear her theology on that one? I had a friend who used to be terrified about this unforgivable sin thing, used to tie herself up in some dreadful knots about it and accuse herself all the time. It was sad. I always tried to say to her that if she was worried she had, then she definitely had not - the whole caring too much thing meaning she loved God. She never believed me though - she thought all her thoughts sinned against the HS. There is a lot of guilt out there, not needed imo. I don't know what the unforgivable sin is, but Mary's description sounds close. Not sure about rejecting God because I know people who totally rejected God and went against him big time then returned and are v strong in faith.

Halloween. Hmm. We're torn, but if our street were having a party it would be more important for us I think to be community minded so we'd probably join in, do some fun games etc. We don't do Halloween as such but we are having a party at our home on halloween and doing pumpkin carving, apple bobbing etc and I will have a big bag of treats to give out to ToTers, however, the dc won't be dressing up in halloween costumes as we don't believe in celebrating darkness. I believe there are spiritual realities and I believe there is an enemy. Not always a popular view, but having had some experience with this I think it is wise not to go anywhere near it, even in fun. However, I do believe in celebration, and in celebrating All Hallows Eve and all Saints Day, and helping our dc see that we are no killjoys :) It's a difficult one though. ds is not going to the halloween disco at school, he doesn't want to go.

Although I'm not keen on the trick-or-treating aspect, I have no problem with my kids dressing up for Halloween. I don't think it "celebrates darkness" to put scary costumes on - kids do it for a laugh really and don't take it seriously. One of my kids' birthdays is Halloween and we've always had a carved pumpkin for that, and one year she had a birthday party with her guests dressing up suitably.

Kids want to dress up - the one year we did a church "Halloween alternative" but said "come in costume", we got hordes more kids than for the years it was a "Light Party": they did the same fun activities and were not roaming the streets, knocking on random doors, but they had the fun of dressing up. Our entire family dressed up - looked a bit like the Addams Family. It was a safe fun party for the local children without taking away the thing they principally liked - the costumes.

I certainly always put a pumpkin in the window and provide sweets for any trick-or-treaters brave enough to come down our lane.

I am also a bit 'meh' about Hallowe'en. I liked it better when we were in America, two years ago, because there everyone celebrated it, but the dressing up was not necessarily 'scary', and there were clear 'rules' about ToT-ing. If people's porch lights were on, it was OK to approach them, and if not, it was a complete no-no. Lots of householders also dressed up, or decorated their porches for the kids coming round. We went with some American friends, and visited the local old folks' home, as well as individual houses, and there the people were delighted to see the kids... it felt like a really nice thing to do. Here, I do not let the dds go ToT-ing, because I know that a lot of people don't like it, and it's not clear whether people are likely to welcome it or not, but I don't mind them going to parties and have even held one in the past, when they were younger.

Mary... I wonder if your Prof was the same one who came to a conference I helped organise a couple of years ago? It did not go entirely according to plan. [Shuddering at the memory!]

Cloutie... You need Millie. But I agree that soft things - socks and gloves, hankies, etc - are a good idea.

Niminy... Well done for getting that essay in!

Just popped on really to say that I am not going to be around for a few weeks. I need to take myself off to finish some work things that have become quite urgent (and stressful) and I am banning myself from pootling around on the internet in order to concentrate fully on what I need to get done. I've just had a lovely weekend away with some friends, so now I am aiming to get my nose to the grinstone for a few weeks. I'll be back soon, though, I promise.

Tuo - good luck with getting the work things done - and with staying away from the internet - you may need to share your tips on this afterwards .

Anyway I just popped in to say we had 'The Servant King' today which, against still competition from 'Such love' is probably my least favourite GK song. Such a dreary tune. I always want to try and fit the words to 'Heaven knows I'm miserable now' by The Smiths to it.

Stiff competition I meant. Doh!

niminy! I'm in full agreement

TUO - good luck with the work stuff and keeping off the internet, it's something I keep meaning to do and never quite get there. The halloween celebrations in the states often do sound lovely, sounds very community minded and like everyone is out on the streets being friendly with each other - would love an equivalent celebration here, but not of halloween as such - or at least not what it has become.

Dandy, I agree with much of what you say but still believe the dressing up in halloween stuff isn't that great, it's been influenced by dd especially being absolutely terrified - she is dyspraxic and when she was younger would scream and sob seeing anyone in such costumes (she couldn't watch Dr Who for years) - now she is fine, and a big HP fan, but something about halloween doesn't sit right with me spiritually. I don't want to make a huge thing out of it, I'm hardly Mrs Conservative, but there is something wrong there and I often feel oppression on the night. However, as I've said, we celebrate in other ways and do the pumpkin carving and games etc. Maybe I am wrong...feel like that quite often at moment. It's interesting to get all your views.

I agree with you MHD. There is something about halloween that just leaves me feeling a bit uneasy. I believe there is an enemy and I think it can be dangerous to make light of some things; for me it means that I may not take things as seriously as I should if I make light of them. I did love halloween as a kid though. It is not all an American import here (the Americans got halloween from the people from the celtic nations who emigrated all those centuries ago). We did dressing up and went guising as kids where there wasn't any threat of a "trick" but instead you had to perform a turn. The adults had to guess who the kids were who were dressed up which meant that you only went to the houses of friends and family. That's what we're going to do next week. I've let a few folk know that we'll be calling in that night.

Shoebox is wrapped up and sent off. I know some people on MN don't like the whole shoebox idea but in our house it means much more to the DSs if they can see things going into a box, rather than Mum and Dad writing a cheque. The Link Romania shoebox scheme also means that a donation is given for every shoebox to cover transportation costs. They also have a policy of not giving out literature with the boxes and as far as I know don't insist that the kids have to attend Sunday School type events to receive them.

I'm no scholar, but I thought no sin was unforgivable? I've never heard of it before.

Cloutie, its in Matthew 12:31-32

"Therefore I tell you, people will be forgiven for every sin and blasphemy, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come. "

DS got terrified when he was younger, still struggles with people in masks, which is why he got scared at the lite party, the pastor was wearing a mask.

googling "unforgivable sin" brings up a few links - as ever with the internet there are a range of views :)

I don't get how she can interpret that as Despair, though

Hmmn, yet another thing that I struggle to get my head around ...

If you google "unforgivable sin despair" it comes up with some answers, like this one: www.gradesaver.com/dr-faustus/q-and-a/why-is-despair-considered-the-one-unforgivable-sin-in-marlowes-time-40741/

This one is more informative noblaspheme.blogspot.co.uk/

wow.
still confused, but it does explain rather a lot.

i don't like it, though. a blasphemy against the holy spirit is not the same as despair. I suppose they're using despair to be the absence of all hope, and the absence of all hope means that you must not believe the holy spirit is the hope of the world.

If you suffer from depression or feel despair at times, its a bit of a kick in the teeth though

exactly.

Meant to ask, would you like a look at my sermon for last week, Nickel? Might be able to turn it into an article for your mag? No worries if you've got enough or don't want to...

Meant to ask, would you like a look at my sermon for last week, Nickel? Might be able to turn it into an article for your mag? No worries if you've got enough or don't want to...

And apols for the double post, not sure how that happened...

Hello - I hope you don't mind me joining you all.

Just to tell you a bit about myself...

I'm Tess and I'm one of those progressive Christian types!

I was raised in a Methodist household, and educated at a private Christian school, and went along happily with it until the age of 15. Then I went through my rebellious 'religion is ' phase.

I headed off to university in London, and at the age of 19, I fell pregnant. It was the moment I found myself drawn back to the church, because when I found myself feeling lost in my situation, I knew what I needed was spiritual guidance. I discovered there was a progressive and all-welcoming progressive church near to the university, which has roots in the Methodist faith, so I went along one Sunday. It was one of the best decisions I ever made.

I felt (well still feel) blessed that despite that period where I turned against faith, God never lost his faith in me, and I believe He called me back to the church when I needed Him the most.

Fast-forward 13 years and my faith is stronger than ever. I have three beautiful children; two sons, Jack (12) and Alexander (6), and a daughter, Sarah (who will be 3 on Halloween). I am happily married to a wonderful Christian man, who didn't judge my past, and was happy to take me and my son on. The five of us live together in a leafy part of Surrey, but not too far from the edges of London, and we attend that same church I sought guidance from 13 years ago.

So what else can I tell you about me?

I love swimming, films, playing the piano and researching my family tree. Oh and I eat far too many Jaffa Cakes!