Can a Christian be happy with a non-Christian partner?

[ThinkingItThrough]

Hi - I would really appreciate some perspective from anyone who is Christian and living with a non-Christian partner or vice versa.

My partner left me 18 months ago. We had lived together as if we were married for 16 years and have 3 children together. Things had been tense in the household for a couple of years, lots of stressful things going on, 2 full-time jobs, a redundancy, extra study, teenage turbulence and so on. We both stopped relating to each other properly and I think withdrew into ourselves to cope.

A new rector came to our local church and my partner was invited to join a men's group then do an Alpha course. He seemed to gain a lot from this. But he didn't talk to me about it and I felt excluded and pushed away. He started judging my behavour by Christian standards, if I said sorry for somethng for example, he said I wasn't truly sorry because I hadn't sought Jesus and true forgiveness and so on. And at the end of an email disagreement he said that he would pray for me, I found this very patronising at the time - it seems to be to saying that the other person's view is right and they have God on their side too. Maybe I am interpreting this wrongly.

Prior to all this we had attended church as a family about 10-12 times a year but soon I felt as if I wasn't welcome anymore and once we were separated, if I did attend, my partner criticised me because he knew I wasn't fully committed (by then he had been confirmed).

Over the last 18 months I have told him repeatedly that I love him very much, I want to be reconciled and make changes that would improve our family life and prioritise us as a couple (something we had lost). At first he said he would set up counselling through the rector but I was not ready for this at the time (he had just done the Alpha and it didn't feel as if it would be neutral territory). I asked for some neutral counselling, he did not agree. I did set up a Relate family counselling session just to see if we could start talking and try and support the children. He did not attend.

All our contact since has been in situations that encourage conflict (talking about money, childcare arrangements and so on). So we have had huge rows but nothing to help us as a couple and he is not willing to meet to focus on us.

He now says he has moved on and in the last few weeks has actively sought and found a Christian partner through a website. He has told our children she is making him very happy.

I'm sorry if I have explained too much but I could really do with some help from someone who can explain why a Christian being with another committed Christian is so significant. He is prepared to put his personal gain from this over any constuctive attempt to rebuild his family. Yet I see many 'halves of a couple' at church where the other partner does not attend. I am totally distraught over all this and cannot bear the situation for my children. Of course there are other personal issues involved and I am sure faith is not the only thing that led him to this. But I feel as if he has gone somewhere I can't go. Any perspectives would be really helpful. Thank you.

He is an arsehole - it has nothing to do with being a newborn Christian.

The Alpha course is also pretty hardcore ...

I second fleshwound, also wonder exactly how long ago it was when he met his new partner.

Get yourself a shit hot lawyer.

I've just re-read my message and it does sound really cold and unemotional. I tried to give a bit of background and stay calm and not upset myself while typing. But would really appreciate anything from anyone with similar experience or help to offer. Or even just some links or knowledge of Christian parenting courses etc that maybe would encourage him to work with me to parent the children together without rows but help me understand his views at the same time. I truly feel as if I have hit a huge wall at 100mph, it is as if my family life has been torn from me, miss my 'pre-Alpha' partner dreadfully and I don't know where to go or where to start. Thanks

A Christian can be happy with a non-Christian - my parents have been very happily married nearly 50 years, mum is atheist, dad is Catholic.

Your husband is using Christianity as an excuse for his behaviour. As fleshwound as already said, the Alpha course is known for being quite hardcore for those at whom it is targeted. He is using his Christianity to support his arsehole-like behaviour. Seriously, you may not realise it right now but you are better off without him.

p.s. read some critical commentaries on the Alpha Course. This may help give you a better understanding of what has happened to your partner.

Thanks both - that is kind of what all my RL friends say and sometimes I agree with them. I have been really angry over the months and going down this route is comforting in the short term but doesn't really offer any answers either.

But when you know someone for so long it seems more complicated than that and I switch between this viewpoint and then desperately wanting to understand him and build our relationship back up. The cold facts are that he did his Alpha course, started thinking in new ways, left me and it was about a year before he started looking for someone on Christian websites and he has only been seeing her for a few weeks. So he doesn't judge himself unfaithful and I don't suppose anyone else would. It just feels like it to me.

We were never married so I don't think I have rights re. the law. He is paying an amount of maintenance for the children that is around the level that would be paid if it went through CSA and that is it. One day I will have to sort the finances out ( I think I am blocking it out at the moment) but really right now I am seeking to understand why he cannot relate to me as a non-Christian.

I'm so sorry to hear what you are going through. I'm a Christian and my husband doesn't come to church. It is hard that there is a significant part of my life that he doesn't want to know about but marriage is much more than that. There are also many "halves of a couple" in my church (evangelical anglican) but I can see that the couples where both are Christian have an extra dimension to their relationships - being able to pray together and having a shared faith and hope. I have to say I am thrilled when my husband comes to church in the hope that he will see something of what I see in Christ. I'm sorry you felt unwelcome - churches are full of people at different places in their faith and no-one should feel excluded.

The apostle Paul's advice in 1 Corinthians Chapter 7 verse 12-16 is that the fact that the husband or wife is not a believer shouldn't lead to divorce but if the non-believing partner wants to end the relationship then "let it be so". Perhaps he is using the fact that you are not technically married to be his excuse for walking away but the fact that you had been living as if you were married and had children together for me would outweigh that. The apostle Peter's advice to wives with unbelieving husbands (1 Peter 3) is to win them without words by your conduct. The way you live your life as a Christian should be a witness to others, not just what you say.

Oh Thinkingitthrough, I am so sorry that your partner has used his religion to treat you and the kids this way.

I am a Christian, married to a Christian and I'm glad it's like that, but I would never ever condone a man leaving the mother of his children over her beliefs or lack of.

The Alpha course does not teach this. It teaches about the Christian faith. Admittedly it can be unhealthily adapted by some churches. Your problem is not due to your partners 'faith' or the Alpha course. It is about his selfishness.

True Christian faith is not about finding true happiness for yourself or pointing out other peoples faults. A real church welcomes everyone whatever their faith. Please could you tell me (PM if you want) what denomination your church is.

If he had really found faith he would be putting the kids and you first, he would be encouraging even small steps forward in your spiritual growth, not putting you down. Please do not feel that you are at fault.

What was his state of mind before he started this journey? How were things between you? It does rather sound as if he was having Some sort of crisis of confidence about his life and rather than seeing that he could improve how he is as a person he has started blaming those around him. Christian faith is wonderful but should never be used as a weapon as he is using it.

It almost sounds like he has been taken over by a cult!

Technodad, yes it does! Or, more sadly he is hiding behind this to make selfish life choices that he has dressed up as faith.

I'm a pagan, my husband a devout christian, and our religions has never come between us. We both believe in raising our children to be good people and to treat those around them with love and respect. There are some who just cant put family and others ahead of their deity (ie my in laws).

Your partner is using his "faith" as an excuse and, actually, being a very poor excuse for a Christian really.

I am married to a very harsh atheist, I am a devout Christian, an elder in my church etc. etc. It is part of my life that my husband doesn't understand, that makes him angry and that he very vocally objects to. BUT, I just keep going on, trying to be a witness to him by not retaliating and by trying to live as good a life as I can. That's what we are supposed to do when we have an unbelieving partner. It's the partner that's supposed to leave if they want because of our faith, not the other way round.

He's also supposed to put the needs of others before his own selfish wants. Faith isn't about our own happiness it's about service. You shouldn't be judged by either him or his church because everyone is at a different place in their journey and all of us fall short of the mark anyway. Judge not, lest ye be judged seems quite appropriate.

It is true that it is best if a couple are both committed Christians, Paul advises us not to become unequally yoked, but that's because you can then have that extra dimension to your relationship and can be a support to one another on the faith journey. it also helps in the bringing up of your kids if you are both singing from the same hymn sheet. However, you were already in a longterm, committed relationship and have a family together when your partner found his "faith", that should take precedence over having a Christian partner. He should be working to fulfil his role as husband (in all but name) and father, not walking away from it.

I support what everyone else has said: it's not your DP's faith that's the problem, but his selfishness and lack of regard for you and the family that you have together.

My DH is a pretty vehement atheist and always has been. I was agnostic (tending towards believing in something, but not a regular church-goer) till a couple of years ago, when I rediscovered the Christian faith in which I'd been raised. DH would probably prefer it if I shared his views, and I'd prefer it if he shared my faith, but that's because we love and respect one another. He's done a bit of minor grumbling at my getting up early on a Sunday morning, but mostly just lives with it. We've allowed our DDs freedom to choose, and one comes to church (and, of her own free will, was baptised and confirmed last year) and the other doesn't. I do pray for my DH - again, because I love him - but I don't tell him that I'm doing so, because I know he'd find it patronising. Our relationship is far from perfect (whose is?), but we try to work around our differences and I'd no more think of leaving my DH because he's not a Christian than he'd leave me for being one... I'm reaching a point where I'd like to do a bit more in my church and just be a bit more involved, and I know that this will require careful negotiation and discussion with DH. One way or another, I trust that we'll find a compromise that'll be acceptable to both of us...

As others have said, your DP is using his faith as an excuse and is clearly not willing to compromise or to negotiate, which is painful for you and, I believe, a misrepresentation of what Christianity is all about (though I can see that the latter doesn't really matter to you - it's how he's behaved towards you that's the issue here). I really feel for you...

Thank you so much for all these lovely messages. Even though I am not a proper Christian (agnostic I guess because I am not sure that I can believe one religion is right above all others but like going to church for the community and the singing), I feel so buoyed up by all your thoughts and words.

I am probably spilling too much personal stuff out here, I am not normally a Mumsnetter, work full time and 3 chn so not much spare time so not 100% sure of the etiquette.

I have gone through many stages with this, like Technodad says, thinking he has joined a cult, feeling angry with the church (it is C of E by the way), feeling patronised when he quotes verses at me of says he will pray for me. I did try sending him a hopeful verse which was strangely the same one from Corinthians that Newlark mentions - but he found it offensive for me a non-Christian to 'quote scripture' at him and said God would find it offensive too. He seems to very strongly feel that God agrees with him and isn't keen on me at all!

Like Hopeforever says, I have to acknowledge that we were both very stressed and were not the kindest to each other before all this blew up. All the external pressures too and he was also extremely depressed about approaching 40 and looking back there were signs he was experiencing a mental crisis. He has moved to a modern flat with no evidence of children, also swapped the family sized car for a BMW. And the Christian he has looked for and found is 10 years younger than me. Classic mid-life crisis symptoms. That is patronising him I am sure but to watch all this going on is so hard when you are coping with the day to day and getting angry all the time but still deep down love him. Does the bible say anything about that - feeling betrayed and angry with and loving the same person? How do you deal with that and keep your sanity?

I would be happy to go to an Alpha course so I can see where he is coming from though doubt I would be fully converted because I have more analytical than beliving tendancies. And live by Christian beliefs if it would help us develop as a couple. Andy i would probably enjoy the spiritual side. But he does not want that or to try again which I guess is a reflection on and rejection of me as a person. And it is obviously possible to turn this around and say well he might have left anyway even if he hadn't converted. Maybe the Alpha process just gave him the thinking space and confidence.

But it is so reassuring to hear that most Christians would try to put repairing family first over looking for a partner with the same belief. Maybe as he reads and learns more this will become apparent to him and he will be more open to working things out. And relax a bit and not be quite so fervent. My worry is that he will be so happy to be in a relationship with another Christian that he will marry her very quickly for the shared bond it would give them and right now it feels like me and the family we created together will be alone forever.

I feel so comforted by all these replies and the stories of couples who do make it work. I'm a lot less frustrated with Christianity than I was this morning - thank you. And it is nice to know most people think being together for so long is as significant as being married. It felt like it to me but in the law and church it as if it never happened.

I have some evangelical christian friends

their agument for only being with christians is that there is only one true path to God and heaven. If you follow the right path then you will go to heaven and spend eternity with your OH (whether you want to or not lol), if one of you doesn't follow the path, they will not be admitted to heaven and they will be forever parted

they also feel that they can support each other through their faith and that they also will be able to bring their children up according to God's will (the family that prays together, stays together and all that)

I think the term Christian covers so many different groups -catholic, c of e, baptist etc etc
they all have slightly different interpretations of what being a christian means

(about to be flamed now)

the Alpha course IMO is akin to brainwashing, they target vulnerable people going through difficult times in their lives, Some people walk away untouched but some embrace it completely and will push away anything from their old life, that they now feel will distract them from their new found faith -makes me shudder!

Thank you Workshy. The heaven thing made me laugh - just what I needed! I have never worked that one out - if you are to be reunited with all your loved ones in heaven, what age and stage would you be at. Would you be a child to your (parents (or would they be with their own parents?), or would you be back with your husband or wife (unless they were back in the child stage hanging out with their parents), or if, with any luck most people die of old age, is heaven full of very elderly people who can't remember who anyone is anyway - like cousins who don't meet for years. Sorry to be flippant but have always wondered about this. Possibly need more spiritual than practical thinking. Maybe it is more a general state of bliss and wellbeing but can't help trying to reason it out. Happily going off to wash up with something else to think about for a while!

Definitely agree that Alpha is like brainwashing and making huge amounts of money for Nicky Gumble whose books contain some god awful shite.

I am a Catholic my husband is agnostic. The kdis were brought up Catholics but don't practise now. I am not so much of a devout Catholic nor is he so anti religion for it to have caused any problems. Enough wars in the world over religion without one in my backyard is what I say!

I think you had some really helpful comments above. FWIW my parents are long term married, one a Christian the other not really anything. They're fine but my mum finds it hard and lonely that her faith is something she can't share with her spouse. It affects lots of things - like when her mum died, it was a key part of her own grieving and accepting which he just couldn't draw alongside her in. So I think when a young person is a believer, I would encourage them to seek a believing spouse and count that as a significant factor. But you were a family already. Marriage may well have become more important to him but it would be the confirmation in public of what was already in existence, not a reason to start from scratch as if he were 18 with no existing commitments.

Would you feel at all able to approach his minister? I wonder what he has told them of your children and you. If he had joined our church, our minister would be wanting to support him in living out his new faith in the life he was in. ie as part of your family. Using his faith as a reason to leave his family and begin a new relationship would be... well I can't really think of how to put it. But there would be some quite serious conversation to understand whether every effort had been made in the family and whether there was any route to reconciliation and renewal. That doesn't mean you'd have to become a believer either.

I really hope you can find a way to get some constructive progress with him.

Alpha does not make 'loads of money for Gumbel' he didn't write the course. He simply is the leader of the church were it started (he was curate for many years). He may or may not make money from the books he has written that run in parallel with the course. I attended one he ran in 1991. I don't agree with everything he said,but I'm so glad I went.

Some people don't like Alpha, fine it's not for everyone. But many do enjoy the course, learn about the Christian faith and can then make up their own minds of what to believe or not believe. It also depends on the church that is running it.

Brainwashing means mind control or forcing someone to do something that is against their will. Alpha does not fit this description. People are free to leave! it is their choice to attend.

In answer to your title - yes, if both people respect the others' beliefs.

In answer to your OP - he's a twat, that's the long and short of it. So - he's making this about Christianity when it's about putting you down, which is nothing to do with Christianity and everything to do with his twattishness - and he can't even take responsibility for that.

What Thumbwitch said. Also, OP, it sounds to me like you ARE a Christian, you go to church, you may be agnostic, but there's a whole sect of Christianity that is agnostic. Were you baptized? I'm doubting you identify as Jewish or Shinto. So his saying he can't be with you because you're not "Christian" is a load of horse poo.
He's doing this because he's a twat. Not because he's a Christian.

You sound like my relationship in the early days (minus the hostility) I'm a Christian, grew up in a Christian home as the granddaughter to two ministers (one either side) and my husband was probably like you. He hadn't been to church in years but started to go to be with me. He did eventually go on to be baptised (or drowned as our daughter told her teacher next day!) but before then it wasn't an issue. We didn't have wildly different beliefs and respected each other's beliefs. I think it would be harder if you are totally different, the Bible calls it unevenly yoked, but it sounds to me like it was just a stick to beat you with to be blunt.

I did an Alpha course, I loved it. It was relaxed and a lot of fun. Not sure where all this money is coming from, I thought it was a free course?

All this is really helping me get some perspective, thank you so much for every comment, each has helped enormously.

I have to acknowledge we had problems and many external pressures anyway and maybe that is part of what led him to the Alpha course. I am so sad that we couldn't agree on and attend some counselling together on these issues for the sake of the family. Now he he is so fervent that that he believes he can only be happy with a Christian partner. But instead of sharing anything he has learned with me in a productive way he has used it as a barrier so I have to accept he is rejecting me for personal reasons as well as the fact I am not a true believer otherwise he surely would have tried to share the comfort he found with me.

But if he hadn't been to the Alpha course and started using it as a shield and a stick I think we would have have been able to find neutral ground to work from, stay as a family and learn to nurture each other and (so crucially!) have fun and laugh together again. And if Alpha didn't have the reputation it has, 'cult' and so on, I might not have felt so alienated.

It is a CofE church and as we used to attend monthly as a family I was thinking the minister or someone from the church might get in touch when they heard my partner had left. Not so much to support me but just as an acknowlegment of what had happened and maybe concern for the loss the children were experiencing or even just to say they would pray for us to be reconciled or somethng. Nobody did though and he was still attending and did the Alpha and confirmation through them so maybe they supported him instead or maybe churches don't get involved in this sort of thing nowadays.

I am baptized yes, but not confirmed and I think the minister knows I am not a wholehearted participant, I like the atmosphere and singing and the experience of going to church but am very uncomfortable with blessings for example and this discomfort shows. I find it quite patriarchal to have to kneel down and have a man put his hand on my head. Am I the only one to struggle with this?

Good suggestion from itsatiggerday - After worrying about it for months I did pluck up the courage to see the minister myself very recently to ask whether the wider diocese connected to any family counselling or positive parenting sssions to help us work together. I think my partner might be more likely to attend if it is Christian focussed. I'm waiting for the info to come through and hope we can salvage something from that so we can work together for the children ( the real issue in all of this), and see what happens. If anyone can recommend a Christian focused group or site that they found helpful I would be very grateful. Or if anyone has seen something similar happen to another couple, did it eventually work out or not?

My gut feeling is that it is a bit strong to call Alpha a cult but it certainly seems to pull some people up short and make them re-evaluate and make big changes in their lives. In many things (sport, religion, anything), new converts can be very intense and single minded. This has huge repercussions for people around them and I think local people who run it should consider the possible fallout for families. They just seem to focus on the outcomes for the individual who attends and that does not seem very 'christian' to me.

You're sounding a bit more positive, hope that you see things progress. Glad you were able to talk to the minister - if he's new, does he know your history? It sounds a bit daft, but I can't tell from what you've said whether he realises that as far as you were aware your partner did the course and then left the family. He may have the impression that it was more ancient history than that. If he's going to get in touch with you re info on counselling / parenting etc, I would be v blunt with him about the timings and the impact on you and the children.

And yes, you should be just as much able to ask them for support and follow up as your partner. Not being quite sure of your faith or whatever is not the issue. If you approach them as the church you would turn to, they are there for everyone, not to take sides and your partner over you because he happens to have done a course.

I have alluded to it but the minister thinks it is too late for any help to work really. I think this now about is the time lag between the person who does the leaving (having maybe thought about it beforehand, lots of free time to talk it over with people, less responsibility for children so can go out more and living in new enviroment) and the person who has been left (same life but with a person missing, lots busier as only one pair of hands and 3 children, always firefighting and no time to think/act productively). Have been torn apart with grief this weekend and it has all come to a head for me. Partner (a bad enough term but where does ex-partner leave me, it's as if 16 years of a shared life, 3 children, our history and our future never happened), says he has moved on and is happy with his new partner. I am going away for a couple of days but all this has really helped me feel more peaceful for a few hours. Thank you so much.