Why is secularism seen as such a threat?

[technodad]

Why is secularism seen as such a threat, when the very idea is based around protection of the rights of the individual?

Just to be clear before we start, secularism is about making everyone equal, no matter what their belief - simple as that really. It means that no one group (or individual) has greater rights or power in society than everyone else and that everyone has freedom of expression.

So what is it about this concept that is so difficult for some people to accept and support?

Secularism is the rejection of religion and religious consideration. It is not the same as equality.

"he really pissed me off when he claimed that religion was more harmful to a child than sexual abuse. He is a vile man."

Please could you link to him saying this?

If only religion was kept as a private matter and did not have a privileged position in society, then the would not be a problem. But it isn't and it does. So it is a problem.

Only if you let it. Most people get by without ever noticing and it doesn't touch them.

If you read james Joyce's Portrait of an Artist of a Young Man there are PAGES of revolting descriptions given by a priest to boys about hell. I don't agree with Dawkins on his summing up about violent sexual abuse but I know exactly what he means about the threat of the everlasting pain that exists in Hell that gives children lifelong guilt and fear; (it doesn't make them good though which it's supposed to do) just guilty forever DH went to a Jesuit school.

"Only if you let it. Most people get by without ever noticing and it doesn't touch them."

People of faith have a privileged position in the law making of this country. They are consulted when scientific and social policy is formed, and have significantly held up legislation on, for example, assisted dying, which led to the travesty of justice that the court was forced to effort to the "locked in" petitioners last week.

TJPJ. it seems to me that what Dawkins is saying there is that in the case of clerical sexual abuse the children may well have been even more damaged by the religious authority held by their abusers, and the threat of damnation held over them if they were to tell anyone. Which is a view I have heard many times put forward by the survivors of clerical abuse.

Now, if you had said he was a sexist bastard, I would have agreed with you...........

TheJoyfulPuddleJumper - If people argue that one of the reasons why secularism is seen as a threat is because of Dawkins, then perhaps it is relevant in this thread.

However, unfortunately (as we have just demonstrated), it is very easy indeed to miss-quote him out of context and make the entire secular movement out to be nasty.

I agree with many other posters, that the reason seems to be that religious groups don't want to loose their privilege and that they will drag people through the mud to discredit their arguments.

I said that in the next week there would be a thread where people think their DC is at a secular school. It took one day! Only 30 posts and 3 think they have secular schools!

I mentioned upthread exotic that the state schools where I taught ignored the worship act which made them secular in reality. In the 80s there was no act so they more or less did what they liked.

Very few are secular in reality -they have to follow the law. Things were more laid back in the 1980s.

Secondary still get around it through lack of space. Primary don't.

It's not a secular school if it has to break the law to be so.

No that's true and effing ridiculous IMO.

It depends on the Head as to exactly how they interpret the law.

I am in Canada, where we do have secular schools. We also have religious schools. When you file your taxes, you check which box you want your tax dollars to support.
In the secular schools, there are no religion classes. There are no church type assemblies, there are seasonal concerts without religious content. There are no prayers, hymns or pastoral care. There are guidance councilors and access to social workers.
At the high school level, some high schools offer courses on world religions, but they are in no way mandatory.
When I was young, we still said the Lord's Prayer, and sang God Save The Queen in the morning, but that was stopped in the late Eighties.
The Catholic schools do get support from the government, which is a hotly debated topic here. If the Catholics get it, so should all other religions, or none should get it at all. The flip side of that argument seems to go that if they closed down all the Catholic schools, they would have to pay for lots more schools and teachers in the public system.
Religious education is left to the parents, or provided by the churches, temples or places of worship on weekends, or after school.

What are parents in the UK meant to do if they don't want their children to have religion, or religious beliefs, as a component of their education?

They are allowed by law to withdraw them.

They can withdraw them, but this hardly ever happens. When I was at school there were some JW kids in my C of E primary school. They were bullied by all of the kids (not me) because they were excused from assembly and were "different".

I live in a rural community and there is a local C of E school which my local authority selected for my children to attend. No one in the school opts out of joint worship, an I hate the idea of my child highlighting themselves as "different" just because they are atheist.

Surely we should be celebrating the fact that our kids are all the same (irrespective of their parents chosen religion). Only by doing this will we stop discrimination and racism in the next generation.

Currently we have clusters of racial and religious groups and they don't mix! This is bad for the future of our community!

I am not suggesting by the way that religion is not taught, but that all religions are talk (as well as the idea of atheism) so that kids can choose for themselves when they are ready!

Sadly DCs do not perceive themselves as all the same regardless of religion; they'll pick on anything that they think is different; red hair, curly hair (I was bullied 'cos i held the straw while drinking the regulatory milk that ages me!). If you take into account how they are bought up they AREN'T the same e.g. some had loving parents, some no parents or absent ones etc.

I agree about educating D.Cs so they can choose for themselves we did this our 2 DDs are secular\atheist our DS has multifaith sensibilities.

Marking my place with a comment that the other thread made me consider starting a Church Of Common Sense! It will explore the philosophies of all great thinkers, religious and otherwise. It will encourage mindful compassion, seek to develop wisdom in the tangible world, and will roundly debunk all magical beliefs. It will recognise mysticism only as an interesting quality of the human imagination. No children or animals will be sacrificed, but barbecues will be held on Sundays with plenty of singing and some jokes :)

Technodad, I thought you might like to be co-founder. I'll catch up on the thread after I've mowed the lawn. Anybody want a small stack of hay??