In your church do you have to be baptised to tak communion?

[roisin]

And what church is it?

We go to a Baptist Church; you don't have to be baptised to take communion.

Completely agree Holo and love the way you put it - maybe I'm higher than I think!!

That's an interesting way of putting it Holo. I don't know quite what I'd say my theology of the Eucharist is, but I certainly don't think it should be about rules or required levels of understanding.

We were lucky in that we moved up to Scotland just at the point where the Episcopal Church up here changed their guidelines to be more inclusive at communion, because they had realised they were treating visitors from other churches differently than children of their own church. So DS started taking communion at the age of 3.

Since then they have shifted a little to expect children to do some preparation first, to make sure they know what they are doing, but I really don't think it is necessary if you are growing up within a family and a church - why should you be expected to understand theoretically before you take part practically, when it's not required for the rest of your Christian life? DS has been a part of the church since I could face sitting on a pew again, and with an ordained dad he's always been able to ask questions as and when they came up, so his understanding developed gradually over time. He hasn't been confirmed, and I'm not sure if he'll ever choose to be, but I don't see any reason to make an expression of God's grace contingent on his willingness to make a decision about committment.

The official position of my Diocese in the C of E (Chichester) is as follows:
'The C of E welcomes to Holy Communion baptised and communicant members of other Trinitarian churches.' This is written in the service sheets for all big services e.g. confirmation, licensing etc where members of other Christian traditions are likely to be present.
So, in this Diocese at least, baptism is expected as an absolute minimum. But we are also keen on baptised children being admitted to communion after a bit of instruction.

I take a different stance from Holo.
My feeling is, that, as babies I made the decision for my children to be brought up in the Christian Faith, and had them Christened / Baptised.
For me, the next step is for them to make a concious decision about if they choose to confirm that decision I made, or not to. If they make that decision, then they will do so after much thought, learning and discussion - both through the weekly meetings the Junior Church have, but also through discussion with their non-Christian friends at school in RE and PHSE, and also at Communion classes. If, at that point, they think they want to be confirmed, I will be delighted, but I don't think it's right that smaller children, with no concept at all of the importance of the sacrement, go forwards and partake, just because they fancy a nice bit of bread and a thimble full of communion wine.

Personally, I can see both sides. The arguments are the much same as for baptism, IMO.

If you believe that you have to personally acknowledge an sound understanding of the Christian faith and have made a decision to follow Christ, then baptism and communion should be for believers. In the CofE, baptism is also about being a member of the worldwide church, which is why it allows believing parents to make the promises on behalf of their children.

If you believe that sacraments are an outward sign of an inward grace, you would never want to deny anyone.

The bible is ambiguous - sometimes it talks about needing belief, and other times it talks about whole households being baptised. Jesus also said not to hinder little children.

Personally, I don't feel strongly about this topic, so am happy to go along with the traditions of my church. I don't think my children feel left out as they receive a blessing, which is a lot more personal than the distribution of the bread and wine.

I think it is quite difficult to cross compare baptist and CofE practices as the baptist church views communion as an ordinance and CofE as a sacrament.

BackforGood, my confirmation class (yes, just the one) was absolutely terrible. It left me more befuddled than I had been before! So I'm afraid that in my case, confirmation wasn't the considered, well-planned thing it's meant to be.

I don't want to start a big argument about this, but I'd like to know what you make of people with conditions like Alzheimer's receiving communion? Would you say that their past faith qualifies them to receive, even if their current condition is such that they may not show any real awareness of what is happening? What if no-one really knows what their past faith was like but they smile and put out cupped hands to receive at the care home communion service?

Also - if I may, because I've been wondering this for a while - in the Baptist tradition, if you have someone who is, say, very brain-damaged or has profound and complex physical and mental difficulties, would that person be allowed to be baptised, if they were never able to articulate anything of their faith? And in the Anglican tradition, could such a person be confirmed and / or receive the sacrament? I know what my personal answer to that would be, but what is the actual experience of people? Sorry - hard questions! But they have been buzzing around in my brain for a while. :)

Wow! Some interesting questions there. I will have to go away and ponder - or maybe wait until my house group starts meeting again in September and put it all up for discussion .
My not really thought through thinking is what is the point in being made a member of the Church / being confirmed then, if it makes no difference to what you can' or can't do ?

C of E has a problem because the Anglican Church is Australia's position is anyone who has been baptised can take communion, so fairly young children regularly take communion before being confirmed (eg. at 8). Also some Anglo-Catholic Churches tend to confirm fairly young.
The strict guideline is "if you have been confirmed or take communion at your own church" (although legally this should be a Church the C of E is in communion with).
I grew up in a free Church which practised adult Baptism, but it was quite common for teenagers to be Baptised (as it is for C of E youngsters who are Baptised as adults instead of Infants). I would talk to him about it. Because if he is old enough to take communion understanding what it means, then he should imho think about being Baptised.

Yes, that is a real question. My personal answer would be that confirmation should be left much, much later, until 18+ / emerging into adulthood for most people (assuming that this means an emerging independence, although that isn't true of everyone) as a way of doing exactly what it says on the tin - confirming that, as a young adult, I am part of this thing called the church. The problem with my confirmation was that I was too young (13) and the priest wanted to confirm me and others before teenage rebellion set in (it didn't). :) One of my friends says that her confirmation was more of an exit rite than an entrance rite, and I don't think she's alone in that. So maybe a later confirmation could be for those who really do understand and want it, to the best of their ability as young adults. (Where that leaves those with profound additional needs is not really solved by this answer.)

I do get the issue of faith being needed to receive communion - that's so important - but I do wonder who we are, any of us, to judge the substance and quality of another person's faith. Having said that, the only type of person I would say should not receive communion is one whois harbouring a grudge / hatred for another, with no intention of seeking / giving forgiveness (which is very different to people who are genuinely struggling to forgive even though it's the hardest thing in the world). There's definitely strong biblical warrant for making that kind of judgement, although again even then, we have to rely on the communicant's conscience to tell them to put things right first.

As for confirmation being the rite enabling people to 'do' stuff, I'm not sure if I agree with the underlying sense that being part of the church is about what you 'do' or what you have the right to do. All baptised Christians, from babies up to the elderly, are members, those who do lots and those who do nothing. This is probably a very Anglican view! To me, baptism is a complete sacrament, not part one of a two-part sacrament. Hmm....so much to think about! Really profound stuff, though... :)

I've thought a lot about this issue regarding adults and children with SN and communion.

I was reading in Christianity magazine about a boy with Downs Syndrome who had been refused admission to communion in his church (may have been confirmation?) whereas all his peers were admitted (think it was RC church)

See this I cannot get my head around at all, because I see communion (and baptism) as signs God has given us to partake in, not necessarily only for those with a great depth of understanding (or even a shallow one). None of us can say we have a perfect theological understanding - to me faith is enough, and actually, as a parent, faith of a parent (when it comes to infant baptism.)

As far as admission to communion at 7, mine were both fully up for that in their own understanding - I remember DS saying 'but why can't I have the bread, I want to thank Jesus for dying for me too?' Indeed why?

DD was confirmed last year at age 10, after being admitted to communion at 7. I was fully in favour of her doing so and it was fully her choice. Her faith is solid, she wanted to publicly proclaim her belief and re-iterate the baptismal vows made on her behalf. I personally don't think there should be an age limit, she had the understanding of a 10 year old, and this is no 'better' than the understanding of an 18 year old in faith terms. Similarly, with people with SN/brain damage etc, if they feel they want to make such a step, their understanding is a good as anyones, their faith as strong - and we can exercise no judgement over what they can/cannot do. in my opinion

I completely agree Holo with your contention about those holding a grudge etc - I'd also say those wilfully carrying on in a certain sin while knowing it is wrong in God's sight. But as far as those who are giving communion go, they are not in a position to know such things, and so in good grace and spirit offer communion to anyone who loves the Lord. It's up to the individual to be in that place to take it.

A young teen with special needs at our CofE church was recently confirmed. The bishop learnt some Makaton for it. And that's how it should be. All we do in faith is about our own relationship with God and not about judging whether others think/feel/do/have the same understanding as we do.

Our old vicar used to invite people to share in it if they considered themselves Christian.

My church is CofE. The vicar's practice is to have a completely 'open table'. Although the notices say that 'anyone who normally takes communion can partake', in practice no one has ever been turned away. As long as you can eat bread/drink wine/Ribena you can take communion. This is important for us. We have someone who has Downs Syndrome and a mental age of 18 months; we have vulnerable adults; we have children coming in off the street unaccompanied by their parents. Who are we to deny these the grace of the sacraments? And who are we to say what transformation grace will work in those who do receive? I think communion gets more meaningful the more you understand about it, and the more you can set it in context of the Christian faith. But grace, if it is anything, is free - to all.

Phantom and Niminy, your posts are heartening and inspirational! There are some fabulous people on the C of E. Gawd bless 'em, every one!

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

I took the sacrament before being baptised, and all the children at church take the sacrament too although we do not practise infant baptism. Baptism usually happens at age 8 (the age of accountability) if you have grown up in the church.

Generally speaking, most adults present and taking sacrament will have been baptised and confirmed - the two ordinances are usually performed within a couple of days of each other.

That's interesting Holo - in my Church (and therefore my experience, as I attend the same church I attended as a child) people do tend to be adults before being confirmed, I was 18. My son is interested and asking questions now, at 16, my sister was 20, the last dozen or so people I can think of as being confirmed were all adults, so I guess that influences what my understanding and thinking is.
I know Catholics tend to have a 'First Communion' service as quite young children (having been invited to dh's cousins' 1st Communions), and, although I'd never have been so impolite as to say, both times I wondered about how much 7,8, 9 yr olds were able to make their own considered opinions. It seemed to me to be "the thing to do" and the whole class from their (Catholic) school were taking the 1st Communion as that is 'what you do', which seems to be more of a decision taken for them either by parents or by the school. I would consider the baptism / christening to be the point at which the parents choose what they want, and then the confirmation being the adult, having grown up, choosing to publically 'confirm' they want to follow that faith.
This is interesting though

I am a catholic, i am however an unmarried mother and as such, not permitted to take communion. I spoke to a friend who is quite high up in the anglican church and he told me that he thought it was a load of bollocks (he actually said that

Our minister was an unmarried mother for most of her son's upbringing, from what I can gather. Does your Church heirarchy not believe in "forgiveness", if they believe this is such a sin ?

Why are you RC if they have excommunicated you, Lucy?

I am a catholic because i was raised a catholic. i dont go to church very much but when i do i am still welcome, just not allowed to take comunion because our parish preist is a knob but its not a big deal to me really, if it were i guess id insist on DP marrying me, my DP is friends with a catholic priest (although my DP is an atheist) who said he would be quite happy for me to take communion at his church, but i woulnd't feel right about it.

In my church the children are offered a grape instead, dd has had them from 6 months (she was baptised at 6 weeks but our vicar would offer grapes to any child). If he takes communion at your church most CofEs would be fine with him having it, generally, the Catholics less so. I go to a low

I agree that it's between him and God really. If he is committed to his faith and has a reasonable understanding for his age of what Communion means then I'd be ok with it.

Lucyellensmum99, your local priest does sound like a right knob.

He is lynette, im strangely quite fond of him though and get quite uppity if folk slag him off - and alot of them do because he is a knob its a case of "I can call Father X a knob but no body else can" I have known him for many years and he was the priest when i was at school, so i sort of accept his knobbishness in a eye rolling sort of way and think, he means well

Sorry, I'm sure he is very nice despite being a knob

lol its ok lynette, i'll let you have that one :)

niminy how wonderful and totally the way things should be :)