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Philosophy/religion

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Original poster

So, from churcg today I got this box full of little envelopes........

49 replies

Northerner · 26/02/2006 17:32

I know they are for me to make a regular donation, but they have a serial number so I know they can track how much I give.

Question is, what is a reasonable amount to give, do they 'expect' notes and not coins.

TIA

OP posts:

Enid · 26/02/2006 17:33

I dont think they track it???

I give £5 a time (monthly) but its my local church and I like to support it as much as I can. Would have thought any amount would be welcome tbh.

alittlebitshy · 26/02/2006 17:35

10% of your earnings is what is "suggested"..... and it can be notes/coins/standing order.
hth

Original poster

Northerner · 26/02/2006 17:35

I had to write my name on a sheet of paper next to the serial number - the same number is printed on each envelope.

I go every fortnight, but can't really afford £5 a go. Might do a couple of pounds.

Thanks

OP posts:

Enid · 26/02/2006 17:35

10%

Enid · 26/02/2006 17:36

if I went every fortnight I would probably give £2

alittlebitshy · 26/02/2006 17:37

lol i wondrerd how long til someone did or similiar.

yup, but obviously a LOT of people don't. lol.

Original poster

Northerner · 26/02/2006 17:37

10% of my earnings?!!! Blimey.

OP posts:

Aero · 26/02/2006 17:53

Is there not a collection box for annonymous donations? We have this in our church, although I think most people give directly from their bank account etc. If you do use the envelope though, then if you pay tax, your money can be gift aided. What you give is up to you and what you can afford.

bran · 26/02/2006 17:55

I'm not sure that they actually expect 10% these days. It used to be that the church provided for those members of the parish who couldn't provide for themselves, but we have the welfare state now and pay NI and taxes so the church really just needs enough to pay wages, maintain property and do some charitable work. I think my MIL does give 10% to the church, but then she is annoyingly pious.

learning · 26/02/2006 18:24

10% is expected here too but realistically I don't anyone gives that much. I know what you mean about serial numbers which I don't think is terribly fair. We have envelopes too and we usually put £7 in weekly and then more for more important collections.

Anniek · 26/02/2006 18:34

10% bl**dy hell, I go most weeks but I only give a pound and I've never used envelopes.

When I get to heaven I will argue with St Peter about it

Flibbertygibbet · 26/02/2006 19:18

The basic answer to the question is they don't "expect" anything. You give what you feel is appropriate for you. And in every church I've known access to the information as to who is giving what is extremely restricted - usually just one person - and it's not the vicar. So don't worry on that count! However ...

Bran "enough to pay wages, maintain property and do some charitable work" still amounts to a fair quantity per head of congregation.

Ask to see a copy of the accounts to give you an idea as to what's going on. Depends on your size of church and congregation. For a small church with only one salaried member of staff, this might be a guide:

Vicar's salary, pension, NI, etc., plus manse costs probably around £23k minimum. Basic bills - church heating, insurance, etc. c.£5k min. Plus - admin, youth work, Sunday school, phone, charitable work, etc. say £2k-£10k.
Even on very conservative estimates you've got £30k expenditure, which needs to be matched by income.
If you've got say 80 active members, maybe 60 households, then on average each household would need to be giving £500 per year. (A lot more than £1 a week). But obviously some couldn't afford this, some could easily afford more.

jessicaandrebeccasmummy · 26/02/2006 19:25

When i go, i put £1 in the collection plate.

The newsletter weekly states how much is given.... of a normal collection during service it averages at £40-50. They then total up envelopes weekly, and it comes in at over £300! It is a small church with a congragation of no more than 100.... it amazes me!

brimfull · 26/02/2006 19:29

I used to play post office with those little envelopes when I was a lass

Dior · 26/02/2006 19:34

Message withdrawn

Cadmum · 26/02/2006 19:40

This beautiful verse seems to sum it up:

2 Cor 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver. (KJV)

i have had a minister (C of E) tell me that he does think that it amounts to theft to not give 10% (tithe) of your income to God. Many Christians believe that now we live under God's grace as opposed to the Law of the Old Covenant. In Canada you get a receipt for a tax deduction so the amount you put in your envelope is closely tracked... (Not too sure that the same applies in the UK as we never had envelopes or enough income to be worried about either when DH was a student there.)

Dior · 26/02/2006 19:42

Message withdrawn

Milliways · 26/02/2006 19:47

Maybe the serial numbers are because, if poss, they ask you to register for giftaid & can then claim back the tax on every penny given - which does add up!

That way, you sign one form, and they know how much they can claim. Our church asks that if you do just put in the odd coin or note, you let treasurer know so he can claim if it is not labelled.

They are not tracking YOU - just the tax!

Milliways · 26/02/2006 19:48

Oh -& our church of < 100 members, but more regulars, has raised over £650K towards a £1M building project. The gift aid clawed back is amazing!

LadySherlockofLGJ · 26/02/2006 19:49

Thank you MWays you have saved me a post.

Cadmum · 26/02/2006 19:49

I wish I could find thw Old Testatment verse that was used in the theft argument... Currently too pregnant to google... Sorry.

LadySherlockofLGJ · 26/02/2006 19:51

They are not tracking YOU - just the tax!

Perfectly reasonable IMO.

alexsmum · 26/02/2006 19:53

yeah at our church you don't have to do envelopes but if you do gift aid can be claimed.we also had to fill in a form saying we would donate a certain amount over the course of a year to enable the pcc to plan effectively.fair enough i think.

Cadmum · 26/02/2006 19:56

Suspect it may be found on this site. (We tend to put in what we happen to feel able to afford and we do atttend most weeks. We do make a point of having the envelopes so that the church benefits from the additional tax credits and so that we do as well...) Recently moved to the US so I have no clue how it works here yet but most people have the envelopes with serial numbers.

Flibbertygibbet · 26/02/2006 20:04

A church we knew stopped having an offering plate, or a 'collection' during the service. They encouraged members to give by standing order if at all possible, and had a box/letterbox thing discreetly at the back for those in the know.

Guess what? Their giving/income actually increased! Makes you think, doesn't it?

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