Atheist spirituality sounds like an oxymoron, but I seem to be practising it

[tintoytarantula]

Sorry, this is going to be a bit of a ramble on my beliefs and practices. TBH I'm not questioning what I do, I'm quite happy with it - I'm posting more to see if anyone else out there feels the same way I do, because I struggle to explain this IRL and people usually end up looking at me like I've got two heads.

I was brought up atheist and throughout my life have never believed in god(s), other than a brief conviction in infant school that everyone had got it all wrong and Jesus was clearly a girl. As an adult I lean towards weak atheism/agnosticism, since I do accept that I can never know for sure whether gods exist, but it just strikes me as vanishingly unlikely. I disbelieve in gods in the same way I believe the sun will come up every morning - on the pilosophical level it's technically open to question, but I don't devote much time to wondering whether I'm wrong. I'm strongly in favour of a secular state, but I've no problem with anyone else's faith (until they start trying to apply their own rules to others). I don't feel the need to argue anyone down for the sake of it.

And yet, and yet.

I believe that spirituality (for want of a better word, since I don't actually believe in the spirit!) is a facet of human psychology, perhaps more important to some people than others. I experience a sense of wonder, elation and profound connection to the world that is sometimes prompted by the amazing things we discover through science, but at other times just seems to ... be. I have adopted some pagan-ish practices, such as following the Wheel of the Year, doing the occasional private ritual and noting moon phases, just because I like it. It grounds me, comforts me and makes me feel more alive. To all intents and purposes, I suppose it's a religious practice. It just doesn't inform my factual understanding of the way the world works. I still don't really think the moon is a goddess - or only in the sense that what we imagine is real in our minds. So I both hold it in a sort of reverence and still know that it's an inanimate lump of rock orbiting the earth. I don't really see why spiritual feelings have to explain how the world works, or provide rules on how we have to live other areas of our lives.

Being open to these feelings makes me a happier person and a better fiction writer. But I feel kind of embarrassed about them and don't often share them with people IRL, because everyone I know seems to fall into one or two camps - they either genuinely believe that there's more to the world than science can ever explain, or they reckon spirituality is unnecessary and a bit silly. I can't seem to drum up any support for the idea that knowingly made-up stuff can still be personally meaningful. (Maybe because it takes me half an hour of waffle to explain what I mean...)

Is there anyone else out there making peace with the whole idea of having imaginary friends?

I think I'm sort of heading towards you but from the opposite end of the spectrum.

I was brought up a Christian and until recently have always had a pretty confident belief in a God. Now I just don't know. It's taking me a long time to make up my mind what I believe, which is fine. But i totally get the idea of there being a 'spiritual' element to human nature, which is most likely a facet of our psychological makeup.

And you might like Alain de Botton's current book Religion for Atheists. I haven't read it but I've read his other work and heard him talking about this one. I think you'd connect well with it.

I totally see where you are coming from.

I am an athiest (raised RC) and for reasons that are too dull to go into I currently form a minor part of a CofE congregation.

I really do think (believe!) that there is a "god gene" - a study I heard about years ago found that some people were "believers" (in whatever) and some were just not. i am just not. I know that people who have a faith/spiritual belief are happier but I simply do not believe in anything "supernatural". I just don't, and I can't change that.

However, I do feel a sense of connection and happiness with nature, quite a lot. Looking out of the window at some rain, seeing the sun make shadows on the grass, the clouds moving across the sky, plants growing, all of that. But that is a "wonder at the natural world" thing - we are animals and of course we feel a connection with our planet and the moon and stars and weather and things. That isn't spiritual, it's animal, instinctive, I think anyway. Totally different from organised religion.

Anyway the reason I posted really is that I have a friend who is a Pagan and when we spoke about it her beliefs felt much more like things I could understand - to do with the natural world and our environment. So I think why not?-Have a look into it. No harm in investigating. I think there is a MN thread for people interested in paganism.

Your feelings don't sound much different from the habits that many atheists have. I am sure that many of us say "touch wood" or wish our loved-ones a safe flight when they go on holiday, when on reality the idea that this will make a difference to the outcome of the random events in the universe is preposterous.

The desire that we can control the world around us with our thoughts as a very strong part of human nature and likely a part of our genetic make-up that helps us succeed in life. If it makes you happy and gives you confidence in life, then why not carry on.

Could the word be connectedness we no longer need religion to explain creatiin however it is part of the human condition to be connected to feel connected to our world and pagan beliefs help us do this separate to the more formal religious dogmas we are taught as children this can creatwe a dissonance and a fracture between belief and spirituality enjoy how you connect to the world

My viewpoint is very like SardineQueens I think. I was brought up Catholic but just don't have a 'god-shaped hole' in my life. I think the genetics idea is very interesting, especially as my sister is a chaplin, so the religious impulse is quite spread in my family (my other two siblings are not practicing but not atheist either).

The world is wonderful and at times incredibly beautiful. I don't feel the need to do anything more than experience it and think how fortunate I am to be there at that moment. My mother on the other hand will feel the urge to praise god, but to me that seems quite alien. So I don't think that that feeling of elation/connectedness necessarily has to have anything to do with religion or faith.

My OH has just finished reading a book called Christian Atheism - he said it was a really interesting read.

I'm sceptical about the things people attribute genes to...I'd like to know more about that research. Our backgrounds have a huge role to play in whether we adopt or reject religion, and which religions people choose.

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Well obviously your background has a huge role to play in which religion you choose

However I do think the fundamental question of whether you "believe" (in whatever it might be), or don't, is more to do with how you fundamentally are.

Some people seem to need to seek out a spiritual life
Others don't
That's it really. Is there a genetic reason for that? It has been mooted.

I think I'm almost singing from the same hymn sheet (or not!LOL) here. My parents rejected their strict Jewish orthodox upbringings and brought my brothers and me up as atheists. I don't believe in a god/s or have any belief in an afterlife. I do however feel a real connectedness to other people and believe no matter what race, religion etc, we all fundamentally have the same needs and are part of the 'connectedness' of the natural world. I sometimes feel an overwhelming love of humanaity totally out of the blue. I suppose that's spiritual. Other than that I think that science explains just about everything. And what we can't explain is due to just not having the knowledge yet.

I really identify with what the OP describes. I have a long winded and complicated story of trying to engage with God through Christian fundamentalism, partly played out on MN under a different Screen name.

It left me atheist, but I still have a feeling of being spiritual. I put it down to jungian stereotypes! But it's definitely there. Not believing in God but having a sort of spiritual connection to the universe/fellow humans.

Fully with you on that tintoytarantula! I started out mildly Christian, then more spiritualist, then rabid sceptic and now. . . well I'm not sure what I'd call it. I have a strong scientific background which has helped confirm a rational understanding of the world and I think that the critical thinking model is one of mankind's finest achievements. . . and yet, and yet. . .

I too celebrate the turning of the year in my own way (and with my beloved wife). (Yule is usually a blast - barbecue, (lit without matches), reading the 'Solar diary' of events in the family that year, including the bloopers, etc). Anyway. . .

The thing is that science and critical thinking, for all their strengths, cannot make value judgments like how much you love someone, whether a picture is 'good art', whether something is worth dying for.

Not only that, but I like the poetry in life. Even if I know that it wasn't really the fairies who took that book I can't find, who is harmed if I say they did? (Politicians tell bigger lies every day - don't get me started!) I like stories and the venerable tradition of oral story-telling. They pass on valuable information, morals, archetypal information/roles of what is good and bad and noble and worthy, or simply for entertainment. As the quote goes "The intuitive mind is a sacred gift. The rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant but has forgotten the gift".

I love the way different ways of seeing can help with problems and help us to come to terms with life. It can be a workout for our 'imagination muscle'. It helps us turn off the TV (we haven't watched it in over 10 years) and to start to wonder, to play, to love more.

But that's not all. It's not just about imagination. It is about personal growth too. I used to believe in God, but no longer. I still give people readings (Palm, Geomancy or Tarot) but in a non-woo woo way (let's see what the oracle says and now let's talk about your problems in the light of this oracle-story and see if we can make sense and find an empowering way forward/get you unstuck).

And personally? Well I don't need to be threatened or coaxed into being a good person by some religion. I, too, feel that sense of spirituality. I use, through, regular self-reflection to see if I could have done better, to apologize when necessary, to make amends and honestly to try to learn from my mistakes, to learn from others and to live, if I can, towards the cardinal virtues - to be a 'good' person, if I can. What I mean is that I can feel that connectedness with others and stand in admiration of the sacrifice and love and compassion of others, but ultimately I have to honor them - the people and the qualities - by doing it too. I believe I have to do more than feel a sense of spirituality. I have to allow it to impel me to do, and to be a better person.

A helpful post, Geomancer :)