Some help needed...boundaries around your beliefs and other people

[JaneB1rkin]

Hi everyone,

I could really use some ideas in order to help my mother.

She has in the last year or two become really heavily involved in the Catholic church, far more than she used to be when I was a child.

I'm pretty much lapsed though I believe in something...just thoroughly put off Catholicism by my early experiences. So I hope you don't mind me asking.

Mum has got what you might call a really strong scrupulous tendency. She feels responsible for everyone and everything. She constantly gives away possessions (they still have enough things, but she doesn't want anything at all) and really going overboard in making sure she isn't associated with anything she doesn't consider 100% honest, or Catholic...I'm talking really minor stuff like the sort of things most people do - insisting on paying for things someone tries to give her for free or with a nod and a wink etc. She just won't accept it.

This is all very well but it's passing over into our lives too. So she won't babysit because my DP and I want to sleep together - she can't be party to us having sex out of marriage. I accept that graciously and we manage.

But she also insists on ringing up to tell me she does not approve of various things. It's really intrusive - things like my children's minor sexual behaviour (think 4yo with hands in pants - totally normal) and now she's fallen out with my sister over her being homosexual.

She's in a right state. We had a long talk this morning. I am able to get past her proclivities by doing what I believe is alright, and telling Mum I am doing this (sex out of marriage etc) and we still are close and see each other every weekend.
However she's told my sister she doesn't approve of hr sleeping with her partner, despite really liking them being together (they are in a civil partnership since about 5 years ago) and is surprised now that my sister's partner doesn't want to visit their home.

I told her how intrusive it is. She didn't insist they don't sleep together, but she said she HAD to tell them how she felt about it as she felt a fraud having them be nice to her when really she doesn't approve of what they do.

I think it's really sad, I'm inclined to think it's a form of passive aggression, but then again she is genuinely confused. She feels like if she doesn't lay out how she feels about it, she's not being honest or doing her best by her children.
I think it's really unpleasant and unnecessary to make people so uncomfortable. After all it's their lives, not hers. She isn't responsible for what they do. But she can't seem to manage the guilt if she shuts up and lets people be happy. She feels it's a sacrifice, losing my sister/SIL, because she had to say what she thought about their being together.

I'm trying to help sort it out. Any ideas most welcome

Poor you! It's not easy being the go between?! My mum is currently in a battle between my sister and me and she feels very torn, knowing she agrees with me but still loves my sister to bits. My mum who is v wise says it's best to keep the channels open. Although I agree your mum is making things v difficult for your sister and therefore for you, if you can try and appear impartial you won't alienate either. I can't imagine you'll be able to sort it all out for them but if through you the channel is open then not impossible! Families can be so complex, I really feel for you

There's a name for this phenomenon and it's called 'Scrupulosity' and it's actually a sin because it involves over-concentration on the 'self' and can lead to paranoia and a sort of ocd state.

Catholics (myself included) are particularly prone to this type of thinking and behaviour and you need to step away a bit, but perhaps your mum might not be able to see that. She's trying desperately to be faithful and please God, but I don't think He'd want people punishing themselves like this.

Perhaps you could try talking to her and explaining these issues and about the way she feels.

Explain how her behaviour is hurting you all and damaging her relationships with her family. And maybe suggest she speaks to a counsellor. If she wishes, her priest may be able to recommend one through the church.

in religious terms. it is not HER place to judge, but to be christian.

god will judge.

Does she have a sensible priest who might talk to her about this? Or a discussion group at church who wouldn't be of the same mind themselves, but ones that would focus more on prayer or fellowship?

Gosh thankyou everyone, some very kind and thoughtful replies. I'm sorry I didn't see them last night.

Hidden, what you said here: 'There's a name for this phenomenon and it's called 'Scrupulosity' and it's actually a sin because it involves over-concentration on the 'self' and can lead to paranoia and a sort of ocd state.' really rang true as she has always suffered with OCD since she was a teenager at least, and it's taken various forms and I believe this might well be one of them.

We did have a very long and I hope, gentle discussion about how putting the hurt onto other people isn't a good thing to do, however worried she is about being 'fraudulent' or giving the impression of approval when really she wants to stress that it is breaking the religious law she subscribes to.

She genuinely seems to feel trapped and is wringing her hands about it. I am quite good at brushing her off, I'm afraid I go a bit Borat on her at times, 'Now, mother, not too much copulating when I'm gone' and she has to laugh (I know, I'm a bit cruel!) but at least our channels are always open.

With my poor old sister, the channels have been shut down a fair few times as she just cannot cope with mum in the same way. I'm not going to try and mediate. I've told mum and made it clear that I will listen and try and help her, and I've also let my sister know that I know what happened and I'm sorry, and I'm on her side. And anything my sis tells me doesn't get passed on to mum, thats a necessity.

I don't think she would accept counselling for this. like you say she is trying to be a saint (well she said as much, that's her aim) and nothing will alter her course but I really hope she can get her head aorund the overscrupulous bit, because that might just make sense to her.

Thankyou so much...the thing about judging, she said that too, that it's up to Jesus but she still feels she is letting Him down if she doesn't say all this stuff. Is there some evangelical crossover going on there I wonder.

Hi I am a new member, not an easy situation, does sound like paranoia. came across this in my family,lead to not seeing my sister- in- law, painful but a better quality of life.
Has your mum got professional health?
life never stays the same, hang on to that .
I am a lapsed catholic, and grown to enjoy life.
we are not here to judge anyone, or be judged.

Many thanks, and welcome

I've spoken to mum and suggested she look at scrupulosity, as I found a lot of good serious Catholic websites and discussion/support forums actually specifically relating to this phenomenon.

She sounded receptive, so maybe she will have a look - she also said she wouldn't be surprised if it was related to OCD, so as you can tell she is very open to being steered in the right direction but worries about how to differentiate between obsessional behaviour and a genuine calling to say or do something that will upset others and lose her the goodwill of friends/family.

Still it may have set something in motion. I heard back from my sister as well so good communication is happening.

Thankyou, I would not have known where to begin but for this thread so I am utterly grateful.